Said Aouita with EPO - how fast?

rekrunner wrote:

Was the original comment about Aouita with EPO, or El G doping suspicions? I thought El G was only supposed to give us a sense of the "EPO level" that would have helped a hypothetical Aouita 5-10 years later.

What about this succinct answer, coming from one poster in a mostly freaking dumb forum, helps me understand what "El G levels of EPO" is supposed to mean?

I'll be f*****d if I know, I was only pretending to understand your obtuse badly expressed 'point' anyway, and I doubt if anyone else did.

Henry from Neighbours wrote:

rekrunner wrote:

Was the original comment about Aouita with EPO, or El G doping suspicions? I thought El G was only supposed to give us a sense of the "EPO level" that would have helped a hypothetical Aouita 5-10 years later.

What about this succinct answer, coming from one poster in a mostly freaking dumb forum, helps me understand what "El G levels of EPO" is supposed to mean?

I'll be f*****d if I know, I was only pretending to understand your obtuse badly expressed 'point' anyway, and I doubt if anyone else did.

I help you out: as always, the evidence is clear:

- no positive test: the runner (here El G and Aouita) is clean

- positive test: the runner is clean, but used toothpaste, supplements, beef, kissed, or went to altitude. Or it was a measurement error.

Most importantly: EPO makes you slower, so Aouita on EPO might have run 13:20.

Just look at the facts, not hearsay!

You do realize you're both confirming and denying Craig's argument and ending up making yourself look like a t*t? 'First you say that 'only six' Moroccan runners faster than Aouita is not 'swamping', and then you say the true figure is eleven. Make your mind up mate.

just say no to drugs wrote:

[quote]rekrunner wrote:

I help you out: as always, the evidence is clear:

- no positive test: the runner (here El G and Aouita) is clean

- positive test: the runner is clean, but used toothpaste, supplements, beef, kissed, or went to altitude. Or it was a measurement error.

Most importantly: EPO makes you slower, so Aouita on EPO might have run 13:20.

Just look at the facts, not hearsay!

Fair dinkum mate, you're one of the bright ones on this board.

EPO makes distance guy run slower.

Just imagine if El G, Bekele etc hadn't been taken it? The times they would have run. 3:20 and sub 12 maybe.

Or maybe you're right and they didn't take any EPO cause they were smart and knew it made you slower, and it was those dastardly European imperialists who were drinking it for breakfast. That explains why Europeans ran slower just when Africans took over.

You're a genius mate.

No -- I don't realize that. You do realize that you mixed two things up? I did not say "six" was not "swamping", but that "six" was not "dozens". Similarly, in a different context, "11" should be compared to "0", not "dozens". Craig told us: "Aouita would be swamped by dozens of Moroccans" and "since then you can't find a Moroccan to barely break 13:15" I just gave real numbers, to compare "dozens" and "you can't find" to reality: Only 6 Moroccans ran faster than Aouita. (Compare the real number 6 to "dozens".) Since then, 11 more Moroccans ran faster than 13:15 (Compare the real number 11 "you can't find a Moroccan to barely break 13:15")

Mike Young wrote:

You do realize you're both confirming and denying Craig's argument and ending up making yourself look like a t*t? 'First you say that 'only six' Moroccan runners faster than Aouita is not 'swamping', and then you say the true figure is eleven. Make your mind up mate.

I haven't yet expressed a point, per se. I did have a question asking for clarification of what seemed to be an ambiguity. I also took the liberty, of listing some historical facts, to help illuminate some exaggerations with a realistic perspective. If you don't understand, and doubt if anyone else did, maybe Craig was right about most people in this forum.

Henry from Neighbours wrote:

rekrunner wrote:

Was the original comment about Aouita with EPO, or El G doping suspicions? I thought El G was only supposed to give us a sense of the "EPO level" that would have helped a hypothetical Aouita 5-10 years later.

What about this succinct answer, coming from one poster in a mostly freaking dumb forum, helps me understand what "El G levels of EPO" is supposed to mean?

I'll be f*****d if I know, I was only pretending to understand your obtuse badly expressed 'point' anyway, and I doubt if anyone else did.

rekrunner wrote:

I haven't yet expressed a point, per se.

I did have a question asking for clarification of what seemed to be an ambiguity.

I also took the liberty, of listing some historical facts, to help illuminate some exaggerations with a realistic perspective.

If you don't understand, and doubt if anyone else did, maybe Craig was right about most people in this forum.

Henry from Neighbours wrote:

I'll be f*****d if I know, I was only pretending to understand your obtuse badly expressed 'point' anyway, and I doubt if anyone else did.

I'm on the fence with Craig regarding his present troubles, but I'll support him on a runner's forum. Craig was talking about Aouita and PEDs and asking how much faster he would have been with EPO. Then you barged in and started making up nonsense about Letsrun members voting that Aouita had El G levels of EPO and that an El G level of EPO is zero because EPO makes you run slower. Then Guy Pierce butted in and pointed out that most LetsRun guys here think El G was high as a kite on EPO. Now you're trying to make us Aussies look stupid again by claiming it was Craig who started all this El G and EPO talk.

So why do Moroccans keep getting busted for taking EPO? And what was Aouita taking that made him slower if all those Moroccans running faster than him (but not enough to swamp him) are taking a peformance degrading drug that wasn't available to him?

Coevett wrote:

..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kX9FoKoo-wI

Do you orgasm every time you watch this, just as the announcer says "it's the 2 Britains out in front"?

You do, don't you?

rekrunner wrote:

Regarding "swamped by dozens", only 6 (or half-dozen) Moroccans ever ran faster than Aouita's 12:58.

[/quote]

Rekrunner, how many Moroccans have run sub 13 since the 2005 epo testing improvements? How many since 2009?

Jason Donovan & Craig McLachlan. The betting man from within predicts that either Alan Dale, Russell Crowe or Kylie Minogue will be here next.

Jason Donovan wrote:

So why do Moroccans keep getting busted for taking EPO?

Good question. My guess is they're are getting bad advice on glow times and pushing high doses in the lead up training period before targeted competitions. They have a lot of IC test positives.

Take Brahim Boulami: tests positive IC (sample taken the day before) when he sets the steeplechase WR (7:53.17) back in 02, which was stripped from the books. But yet he avoided a positive test just a year earlier when he ran 7:55.28, which still stands as 4th best ever.

Same with Adil Kaouch - tests positive IC Rome Gala in 07 within a year of his PB. And of course, lets not forgot Ramzi - the infamous CERA IC positive from Beijing and those astronomically high off scores (157.8/148) from his double gold performance at Helsinki. He avoided detection in no less than 21 target tests from Helsinki up to the CERA positive. Was he one step ahead of WADA until he transitioned to CERA which has a glow period 20x of first gen EPO?

Even in the passport era, Morrocan runners have 9 ABP sanctions (8 men/1 female), second only to Russia's world leading 35! Plus last year they had some OOC positives for EPO.

Addicted to O2-vector doping, I guess.

I don't mind if someone doesn't agree with what I write, but it is getting rather old having to defend myself against things I didn't say. In the original post "Craig" said "El G levels of EPO". This is not "my claim", but a verifiable fact. I did not say "Letsrun members voting that Aouita had El G levels of EPO". They did not vote on Aouita. I did not say "EPO makes you run slower". Moroccans keep getting busted for EPO, because they are taking it and getting caught and it's against the rules.

Three since 2005, with one after 2009.

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

rekrunner wrote:

Regarding "swamped by dozens", only 6 (or half-dozen) Moroccans ever ran faster than Aouita's 12:58.

Rekrunner, how many Moroccans have run sub 13 since the 2005 epo testing improvements? How many since 2009?

They are getting bad advice, period.

High-Octane Dopers wrote:

Jason Donovan wrote:

So why do Moroccans keep getting busted for taking EPO?

Good question. My guess is they're are getting bad advice on glow times and pushing high doses ...

rekrunner wrote:

Three since 2005, with one after 2009.

Correct...only one sub-13 in the passport era; Abdelati Iguider (12:59/2015). Surprising that there's no doping history on him considering the next two fastest passport era times are Chakir Boujattaoui (13:09) who tested positive for CERA (friend of Ramzi's?), and Othmane El Goumri (13:13) who was sanctioned for ABP anomalies.

Funny sidenote: Even the field events are getting in on the act with EPO as Morocco's top long jumper tested positive for rocket fuel: ?

rekrunner wrote:

They are getting bad advice, period.

High-Octane Dopers wrote:

Good question. My guess is they're are getting bad advice on glow times and pushing high doses ...

They're just examples of a dirty, corrupt, cheating culture and can't stop themselves.

It's ridiculous that Russia is banned while Morocco is allowed to continue competing. Even if the Moroccan authorities aren't supplying the drug cheats or covering up for them, they are complicit in allowing such a culture.

It's ironic because Russian athletes are universally banned because of the (alleged) wrongdoing of their federation, yet Moroccan athletes are doping en masse off their own back, and allowed to compete (apart from the real idiots forgot to microdose or time their injections right).

In countries like Morocco they barely even bother collecting taxes because they know the people wont honestly report. In the Uk, Germany, USA, most people do honestly report, although large percentages either commit fraud or engage in dodgy tax avoidance schemes. Personally, I've never cheated on my tax, or even been inclined to do so. Do the guys here who assume 'everbody dopes' also assume that 'everbody cheats on their taxes'? Sounds a bit like you lot are so insistant in defending corrupt athletic cultures because you're inherent cheaters yourself, and need to believe that EVERYBODY else is the same.

High-Octane Dopers wrote:

rekrunner wrote:

Three since 2005, with one after 2009.

Correct...only one sub-13 in the passport era; Abdelati Iguider (12:59/2015). Surprising that there's no doping history on him considering the next two fastest passport era times are Chakir Boujattaoui (13:09) who tested positive for CERA (friend of Ramzi's?), and Othmane El Goumri (13:13) who was sanctioned for ABP anomalies.

Funny sidenote: Even the field events are getting in on the act with EPO as Morocco's top long jumper tested positive for rocket fuel: ?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahya_Berrabah

Even the Moroccan chess federation is rampantly corrupt :

Morocco recently defended the 'blind soccer' championship - LOL, I bet not one of them are really blind :

The same could be said about Kenya - why are they allowed to compete and the Russians aren't? Over *40* doping positives reported with Kenyan runners since 2011 and corruption within their anti-doping agency.

If the Russians are banned and you want to see Morocco go down, then Kenya should also be banned. Too much favoritism here - just blame Russia for all the world's doping problems seems to be the theme with the IAAF.

And don't forgot some of those first world nations that have been tarnished with doping scandals. Spain had it's Operation's Galco & Puerto in the 2000s and the infamous BALCO scandal in the U.S. that ended up destroying the career of America's sweetheart Marion Jones.

rekrunner wrote:

Three since 2005, with one after 2009.

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

Rekrunner, how many Moroccans have run sub 13 since the 2005 epo testing improvements? How many since 2009?

Well just checking, Goumri (who had a passport violation = blood doping), Bellani, Iguider. Iguider is the only one since 2009 (and only just) considering he is a 3:28 man.