List of Boost-ish TPU midsole running shoes. Whatcha got?

Decided to return the DPRs. Really like the upper, just more drop than I care to get used to. If Adidas have typically been too narrow for you and you like 8ish mm drop, then definitely give these a look.

Buying a second pair of Freedoms and waiting for either the Reebok Fast or Escalante Racer this summer.

Running Warehouse's teaser game is getting pretty strong. First the Adidas Sub2, now the Altra Escalante Racer. Midsole looks nice and thick.

http://www.runningwarehouse.com/Altra_Escalante_Racer/descpage-AER03M1.html

vivalarepublica wrote:

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

No you've gotta go Ultra Boost (though I might try the altra's).

But do they come at price lower than my car payment?

I’ve been thinking about the Boston 6 or Adios 3 for half marathons and longer. Not sure about the 10mm drop, though, because I’ve had some issues with various pains in high drop shoes and I’ve been killing my races in 4mm drop Saucony Fastwitch.

Fastwitch is a good shoe.

I got the UltraBoosts St for US$72.

The Boston 6 and the Zante look like they were designed for the same foot. Another completely useless fact from from yours truly.

Can someonr explain what tpu is vs Eva? I'm not a shoe guy but this sounds important.

Flmn wrote:

Can someonr explain what tpu is vs Eva? I'm not a shoe guy but this sounds important.

I gotchu.

EVA is essentially a tough, somewhat elastic rubber compound composed of attached bubbles of air used for the cushioning of most shoes up until recently. It was originally sought after because it is fairly flexible and better than its alternatives as far as responsiveness goes (until TPU came along).

TPU is packets of air packed tightly together (but not attached to each other). This is important because it allows the cushioning to compress and expand more easily and to a greater extent. While theoretically EVA and TPU have the same responsiveness, TPU is softer and thus easier to compress, generating greater "bounce" upon ground contact. Plus, it's more durable than EVA.

Hope this helps, I can elaborate if needed.

Nike Zoom X (dont know if tpu ish but better than boost)

Nike React

New Balance Revlite

dbsquirtNXC21 wrote:

Nike Zoom X (dont know if tpu ish but better than boost)

Nike React

New Balance Revlite

Nike Zoom is a pressurized air pocket with special fibers inside. ZoomX, however, is the midsole material used in the 4%, and I am pretty sure that it is a TPU.

React is a TPU as well, I believe, although we still don't know a lot about it.

Revlite (and I believe Fresh Foam) are EVA compounds.

vivalarepublica wrote:

Running Warehouse's teaser game is getting pretty strong. First the Adidas Sub2, now the Altra Escalante Racer. Midsole looks nice and thick.

http://www.runningwarehouse.com/Altra_Escalante_Racer/descpage-AER03M1.html

Slightly unrelated, but while looking at uniforms for my high school team the Nike team ordering page has an option to order the Pegasus 35. I briefly saw a description the first time I looked (no picture), but now the description is gone too. No clue if the Pegasus 35 will have TPU.

vivalarepublica wrote:

Went for a good run in the Saucony Freedom yesterday. They definitely have a different feel than what I am accustomed too. My pace was consistently faster than I wanted it to be, so I don’t know if that was the shoes or my excitement about a new pair with wind at my back. The outsole is pretty grippy as well, it did well on patches of ice.

If Saucony could make a similar shoe they shaved off a couple ounces (and there definitely is potential to shave off a couple ounces), I would be interested in something similar as a racing flat.

Sorry for blasting the thread with replies, btw.

The Saucony Endorphin Racer (or Racer 2), both less than 4oz (I think), has an everun midsole or topsole, I forget which. It can be found for fairly cheap too so take a look. I haven't worn or done much research into these so I don't know the details super well.

kid from PA wrote:

Flmn wrote:

Can someonr explain what tpu is vs Eva? I'm not a shoe guy but this sounds important.

I gotchu.

EVA is essentially a tough, somewhat elastic rubber compound composed of attached bubbles of air used for the cushioning of most shoes up until recently. It was originally sought after because it is fairly flexible and better than its alternatives as far as responsiveness goes (until TPU came along).

TPU is packets of air packed tightly together (but not attached to each other). This is important because it allows the cushioning to compress and expand more easily and to a greater extent. While theoretically EVA and TPU have the same responsiveness, TPU is softer and thus easier to compress, generating greater "bounce" upon ground contact. Plus, it's more durable than EVA.

Hope this helps, I can elaborate if needed.

Thank you. How long has TPU been around?

Does the Nike 4% shoe have it or is that something else? What about the 2 hour adidas shoes people were posting about.

Why would anyone make a shoe without TPU?

One more Q. Does some company own a patent on TPU? Who invented it?

Flmn wrote:

One more Q. Does some company own a patent on TPU? Who invented it?

BASF (a German chemical company) invented it and licenses the tech to Adidas. I don't know about the new TPU shoes from other companies though.

I'm not the world's expert on this by any stretch, but know a little bit about it. TPU, EVA, etc are all types of plastics. You can google them to learn more of course. TPU is considered to be heavier but more responsive and more durable than EVA, so the midsoles last longer and have more bounce. Since TPU is thermoplastic polyurethane, I don't think it's possible to patent it per se, though perhaps certain formulations could be (I really don't know). Adidas "boost" material is a TPU formulated by BASF, a huge German chemical company. Saucony's "everun" is also a TPU made by BASF, though Saucony has them make it to a different specification (firmer apparently). I understand that Nike's "zoomx" is a blown PEBA (another plastic formulation) developed by Zote Foams in the UK. Adidas' upcoming "boost light" apparently is a PEBA and not a TPU. The PEBA material is supposed to be lighter and with good responsiveness, but durability will typically be lower depending on the specification,. I find all this interesting, but in the scheme of things it's not terribly important to know the science as much as just understanding what the materials (boost, everun, zoomx, etc) -- or really just what the different models of shoes -- offer in terms of weight vs cushion vs rebound vs durability. Hope this helps though.

Flmn wrote:

One more Q. Does some company own a patent on TPU? Who invented it?

General use TPU has been around for a while (since 2000 at least, it's hard to tell how long with company secrecy and all.) However, it only started to appear in shoes around 2008, I believe.

I believe ZoomX (which is in the Nike 4%) is a TPU. However the 4% also has a Pebax plate for extra rebound, which is what makes it controversial. the adidas 2 hour has Boost, which is basically considered the OG TPU for shoes.

I think that your final question is what we're trying to figure out, if EVA is dead or what. Some people like firm shoes, but even still TPU has an adjustable hardness that EVA doesn't really have. It's honestly too early to figure out if the whole industry is changing, but that's a very good question.

Interesting. I didn't know it was a PEBA. So for Flmn, I guess I was wrong and ZoomX is not a TPU.

From what I have researched, the Vaporfly 4% uses PebaX, which is a thermoplastic elastomer, rather than a thermoplastic polyurethane (TPU). I only know the differences between those in name only. It definitely is more lightweight than TPU, but most likely sacrifices durability.

Again I'm not the last word on this, but I think the answer as to why EVA is still used is the same answer you'd find in any industry: it's time-tested and it's cheap. With emphasis on the latter. Not only do the new materials cost more, but moving to them takes time from a design and manufacturing perspective, so it's cheap and easy to stick with EVA. The migration to newer, more expensive materials is not going to happen overnight and some companies have not done it at all (yet), some fairly aggressively (Adidas) and some just a bit at a time (Saucony). I'm not expert enough, though, to say whether we'll still be seeing a lot of EVA in running shoes in, say, 10 years or whether it's expected to largely disappear from the scene.

kid from PA wrote:

I think that your final question is what we're trying to figure out, if EVA is dead or what. Some people like firm shoes, but even still TPU has an adjustable hardness that EVA doesn't really have. It's honestly too early to figure out if the whole industry is changing, but that's a very good question.

EVA won’t die in running shoes. It’s cheap, common, and time tested. People will always buy the cheaper options.

But the higher end may very well shift more and more to TPU and foam like ZoomX and Boost Light.