I've seen scenarios where the fresh out of college dude runs with the kids trying to be the cool little bit older person. They aren't. Don't run with the kids.
I've seen scenarios where the fresh out of college dude runs with the kids trying to be the cool little bit older person. They aren't. Don't run with the kids.
Surprise! wrote:
This is almost creepy to me. Of course a highschool coach shouldn't run with the team. Flagpole and prefan are 100% correct.
Seriously, one person's rationale was "what if someone gets hit by a car?"
I suspect a lot of these coaches are really just trying to get their own training in and while they care about the team, aren't putting them first. You are there to coach, not work out.
Yep. It's creepy, it is potentially demotivating, it sucks the fun out of going on a long run with your friends, it has nothing to do with the safety of the runners (that's all just a rationalization). Definitely just trying to get their run in and not putting the team first. The one poster mentioned how he had small teams while he ran with them but then the size grew after he stopped doing that -- well, the word got out that the coach wasn't harshing their good time anymore.
Centrowitz it is...Yes! wrote:
That is another reason why coaches must supervise their teams. Why do you think dirty talk is okay?
I bet you're loads of fun at parties.
Surprise! wrote:
I've seen scenarios where the fresh out of college dude runs with the kids trying to be the cool little bit older person. They aren't. Don't run with the kids.
Yep. Summer training at my son's school is open to anyone who would like to join, because it's not a school-sanctioned practice until Aug. 1 -- can't make anyone attend until then. For a few years, one guy who had recently graduated would join them. Every year he did so, he got further away from graduation and the kids made more and more negative comments about him being there. He thought he was cool. The kids didn't. Same is true when coaches run with the athletes. They might like the coach and feel they inspire them, but they really don't like it that they run with them...they really don't.
Flag, you are letting a bad experience cloud your judgement and make blanket statements about all coaches.
You are better than this.
(See my response on the second page...)
Flagpole wrote:
Surprise! wrote:This is almost creepy to me. Of course a highschool coach shouldn't run with the team. Flagpole and prefan are 100% correct.
Seriously, one person's rationale was "what if someone gets hit by a car?"
I suspect a lot of these coaches are really just trying to get their own training in and while they care about the team, aren't putting them first. You are there to coach, not work out.
Yep. It's creepy, it is potentially demotivating, it sucks the fun out of going on a long run with your friends, it has nothing to do with the safety of the runners (that's all just a rationalization). Definitely just trying to get their run in and not putting the team first. The one poster mentioned how he had small teams while he ran with them but then the size grew after he stopped doing that -- well, the word got out that the coach wasn't harshing their good time anymore.
You keep digging a hole for yourself on this one. You are way off, but keep doubling down.
thejeff wrote:
Flag, you are letting a bad experience cloud your judgement and make blanket statements about all coaches.
You are better than this.
(See my response on the second page...)
Yeah, I read that earlier. I disagree with all of it. You don't need to show the kids that you can "suffer" along with them currently. Just their knowing that you were in their shoes once upon a time is more than enough.
Running with your high school athletes:
1) Creepy.
2) Doesn't provide appropriate separation between coach and athlete (football coaches don't go put the pads on and engage in practice).
3) Sucks the fun out of training for the kids. Gotta let good kids be kids. When my son was a freshman, he loved running with the older kids on the team, having the freedom to run unwatched like they all were in middle school, hearing what those older kids talked about when other adults weren't around, etc. Just part of growing up.
4) The coaches who run with the team just want to get a run in. Has nothing to do with helping the team, and it's wrong.
I didn't read all of these post to know if someone else mentioned, Bill Dellinger ran with his athletes on occasion. I've been coaching for 15 years and have run with them on many easy runs. Even though I am still faster than most of my athletes I usually run mid pack so I can keep track of the leaders, push the mid packers a little and still monitor my slower runners.
I have a large group this year and a few kids that have the potential to get lost, so I'll drive and monitor instead.
What I have heard most at end-of-the year banquets from seniors is how much that appreciated that I ran with them. It shows discipline and models a healthy future lifestyle.
john utah wrote:
You keep digging a hole for yourself on this one. You are way off, but keep doubling down.
Nope. Listen to Surprise! I am 100% correct as he said.
Flagpole wrote:
zohan wrote:Glad this thread hasn't gone off the rails. The consensus seems to be that it's OK some of the time, and in my opinion that's what it should be.
The threat of being "one of the guys" is something that can't be stressed too much. If you are a coach and feel things sliding in that direction you need to pull back. Let those guys have their time.
Those saying it is ok are coaches who want it to be ok. It isn't. Baseball and basketball coaches don't go out there and take batting practice or play in a scrimmage. Coaches who think it is ok to run with their teams aren't likely to feel things sliding in a bad direction. It's all a bad direction. Coaches coach. Athletes train. Any coach who thinks they are coaching while running with the team has some serious micromanaging issues (at best) and, if not that, some maturity issues.
If there are issues with some runners not running the route or some shenanigans going on, then either hop on a bike or make them run within eyesight for a while until they get that they can't do what they've been doing. Running with them is wrong though. Not a good way to spark interest from others who have yet to join the team. "Guess what, Coach Wilson runs with us! Isn't that great!" -- Umm...no.
There are way too many successful teams where a coach 'periodically' run with their athletes to have such a strong opinion against it. I ran with my athletes on occasions, primarily early season JV group runs. To the best of my knowledge, the kids enjoyed it and I was able to get in a workout as well. With that said, most of the times I could not run with my athletes because my coaching duties did not permit it and also as my kids got better I didn't.
Fast is as fast does wrote:
What I have heard most at end-of-the year banquets from seniors is how much that appreciated that I ran with them.
That is something a kid says to a coach to be nice and to seem mature in hopes of impressing you. They hated it that you ran with them...seriously hated it.
TrackCoach wrote:
There are way too many successful teams where a coach 'periodically' run with their athletes to have such a strong opinion against it. I ran with my athletes on occasions, primarily early season JV group runs. To the best of my knowledge, the kids enjoyed it and I was able to get in a workout as well. With that said, most of the times I could not run with my athletes because my coaching duties did not permit it and also as my kids got better I didn't.
I didn't say it necessarily keeps the kids from doing well...just that it sucks the fun out of it for them, and potentially does keep more from joining, so that could have an unknown effect.
This sentence of yours - "To the best of my knowledge, the kids enjoyed it and I was able to get in a workout as well."
1) You didn't have full knowledge.
2) You getting in a workout is not a goal of a coach and it IS why you and others rationalize doing it. The team and the time during practice is not about you.
Flagpole wrote:
I didn't say it necessarily keeps the kids from doing well...just that it sucks the fun out of it for them, and potentially does keep more from joining, so that could have an unknown effect.
Doing well and having fun are the same thing. Winning is THE thing that is fun about XC.
Flagpole wrote:
800 dude wrote:... but I also think it's worth keeping mind that nobody ever thinks they're being "that guy," even if sometimes they are.
This^ is the truth and the crux of the whole discussion. People want what they want, and so they tell themselves that it is ok. I will give one exception to the not running with the athletes rule...if there is a special needs kid who really must have adult supervision and the parents and the school either can't afford or won't pay for someone to run with them, if the coach is able and all parties agree, then I'm ok with that. Pretty much, other than that situation, coaches need to not run with their athletes.
Not the only exception - at the park we run in it is required that a coach either be with the athletes or close by and we have to limit our groups to 6 or less. The only way to do this is to run with various groups. This is part of the agreement we sign with the park in order to be allowed to run there. The way we balance the need for runner to be on their own and to have supervision is to run only portions of the run with each group. This does have its advantages as you can utilize this time to go over things with individual athletes - such as how they felt during a workout or how get a good feel for how they are doing a certain paces - that otherwise you would never have time to cover in the course of normal practice. XC workouts tend to be a different situation as we can have them run in a much more condensed area and therefore spend much more time monitoring the wo then running. HS kids are very busy and practice time must be utilized effectively - running portions of their easy days is a good way to maximize a coaches limited time with an athlete. So even if it was not required I suspect we would set up things much the same way.
Remember, this is about high school. This isn't about a pro coach running with his athletes, and this isn't about running with 10 year olds who need someone to teach them safe traffic navigation.
High school kids don't want you there. It's team bonding time, not hovering coach time.
Flagpole wrote:
Yeah, I read that earlier. I disagree with all of it. You don't need to show the kids that you can "suffer" along with them currently. Just their knowing that you were in their shoes once upon a time is more than enough.
Running with your high school athletes:
1) Creepy.
2) Doesn't provide appropriate separation between coach and athlete (football coaches don't go put the pads on and engage in practice).
3) Sucks the fun out of training for the kids. Gotta let good kids be kids. When my son was a freshman, he loved running with the older kids on the team, having the freedom to run unwatched like they all were in middle school, hearing what those older kids talked about when other adults weren't around, etc. Just part of growing up.
4) The coaches who run with the team just want to get a run in. Has nothing to do with helping the team, and it's wrong.
1) Why is it creepy? Is there something sexual about it? Was it creepy when my chess club coach played chess with us?
Flagpole wrote:
Fast is as fast does wrote:What I have heard most at end-of-the year banquets from seniors is how much that appreciated that I ran with them.
That is something a kid says to a coach to be nice and to seem mature in hopes of impressing you. They hated it that you ran with them...seriously hated it.
I loved it when my coach ran with me. So did other kids on my team. Why do you think you know otherwise?
prefan wrote:
I coached XC teams to state team titles and I have never run with my teams, nor would I. Ever. When I ran in HS, my coach ran with us. I hated it, the entire team did. In college, my coach didn't run with us, we all loved it. HS team wasn't so good, college team was top 15 in country all 4 years I was there. Anecdotal but not a coincidence in my book. Made a vow that if I ever coached, I would never run with the team. It just kills team-bonding and kills the ability of your captain to step up and be a leader. To you coaches who think your team loves you running with them, you're wrong, even if they tell you this, they are just sucking up to you. No self-respecting HS runner wants their coach running with them. You're the authority figure, not a teammate. Be the authority figure. You coach, they run. If you want to run and race, do it on your own time and do a favor to your HS XC team. Flagpole nailed it.
Yep. You are so right and gave the right reasons very effectively. It kills team bonding and stifles the leadership growth of the captain(s). You are what a high school coach should be.
Flagpole wrote:
thejeff wrote:Flag, you are letting a bad experience cloud your judgement and make blanket statements about all coaches.
You are better than this.
(See my response on the second page...)
Yeah, I read that earlier. I disagree with all of it. You don't need to show the kids that you can "suffer" along with them currently. Just their knowing that you were in their shoes once upon a time is more than enough.
Running with your high school athletes:
1) Creepy.
2) Doesn't provide appropriate separation between coach and athlete (football coaches don't go put the pads on and engage in practice).
3) Sucks the fun out of training for the kids. Gotta let good kids be kids. When my son was a freshman, he loved running with the older kids on the team, having the freedom to run unwatched like they all were in middle school, hearing what those older kids talked about when other adults weren't around, etc. Just part of growing up.
4) The coaches who run with the team just want to get a run in. Has nothing to do with helping the team, and it's wrong.
1. Like most things, you can make it creepy or not. I don't ask my kids about their dating life. Did someone do that to someone you know?
2. Football coaches absolutely...ABSOLUTELY... show the correct way to form tackle, take on blocks, etc. With their team. This can get very physical. Did you play college football?
3. This may be the only part I agree with you on, but it is an asinine argument. Yes, my kids are supervised; they should not knock over trashcans, walk when they think they are alone, or talk about which girls on the team they wanna bang. Calling that stuff "just part of growing up" is a cop out by adults who would rather look the other way when children make poor decisions. Maybe you just had the wrong kind of friends.
4. I get in my runs before practice at 4:45-5am (practice starts at 6:15), so no, I am not just "getting in a run".
Let me guess: you have never been a head coach at a facility where you worked full time. Am I right?
When I was in HS, in a large top tier program, we almost never had a coach run with us. When one of the assistants tried, one of the more popular history teachers in the school, we always toasted him, and laughed at him behind his back.
Now that I coach, I never run with my team. I get any workout I am doing done before or after practice. We have several All-State Runners, so I wouldn't be able to keep up with them anyway. We do have a coach who is a former D-1 runner, in his mid-40s now. He runs with the team on almost every run. He does a good job though of giving the team their space when they need/want it.
When it comes to track season and lifting, I will hop in when someone needs a spotter, and will get in a set or two here seperatley, but most of the time, I am just making sure the underclassmen don't kill themselves in the squat rack.