Is a sub-60 10-miler that hard?

hand in your certificate wrote:

CoachB wrote:

I do.

The ability to run sub 60 requires someone to be able to run 6:00 per mile for an hour. A kid who has trained as an 8/16 runner can run 4:45 due to very high lactate tolerance without developing the capacity to cruise at 6:00 pace for an hour.

The fact that his tempo efforts are right at 6:00 pace leads me to believe that he hasn't yet developed the ability to run 60:00 yet.

You should stop coaching then.

The ability to run a 4;45 mile also contains the ability to run 6 minute miles for an hour.

You apparently have no idea about the range of crossover an athlete should have even without specific training.

Are you basing your pronouncements on 20 years of coaching experience or your own personal running experience?

This whole thread is people overestimating the mile and underestimating the 10 mile

sub 60 is no joke

Is a sub 60 ten miler hard?

Depends on who he's with and what she/he is doing to him.

A 20-year-old guy with a 4:20 mile PR who runs 60 miles per week can do it easy. His 19-year-old pal who runs 60 miles per week with a much better PR over 2-miles (9:19 to 9:35) can do it easier, leaving the first guy in the dust.

That is what I know, based on experience.

Efraim wrote:

A 20-year-old guy with a 4:20 mile PR who runs 60 miles per week can do it easy. His 19-year-old pal who runs 60 miles per week with a much better PR over 2-miles (9:19 to 9:35) can do it easier, leaving the first guy in the dust.

That is what I know, based on experience.

+1

CoachB wrote:

hand in your certificate wrote:

You should stop coaching then.

The ability to run a 4;45 mile also contains the ability to run 6 minute miles for an hour.

You apparently have no idea about the range of crossover an athlete should have even without specific training.

Are you basing your pronouncements on 20 years of coaching experience or your own personal running experience?

30 years plus my own experience.

My own experience also included a coach who believed all of his sub 5 milers should be able to bang out a sub 60 ten miler even though we weren't training specifically for it. He was right.

Update: New workout today that may be informative:

2mi w/u, 2x2mi: 11:44, 11:35 with 4 min rest + 3x200 w/200 walk rest 30, 30, 28, 1mi w/d. Still a tempo effort for the 2 miles, but harder than my other workouts.

Still doesn't indicate sub 60 ten miler. The rest/recovery should be only 1 minute. What has been your progression up to this point? What is the real goal during the XC upcoming season.

coahc wrote:

Still doesn't indicate sub 60 ten miler. The rest/recovery should be only 1 minute. What has been your progression up to this point? What is the real goal during the XC upcoming season.

Fair. It was hot and I took more rest than I should have- more than I needed really.

Freshman year: 20:20, 5:05, 2:14, 10:57

Sophomore: 17:17, 4:45, 2:10,

Junior year goals: was 16:00 at the start of summer, although I don't think it's gonna happen honestly. Maybe 16:40

You're fit enough to do it. Believe it.

Hypotheticals Are My Game wrote:

coahc wrote:

Still doesn't indicate sub 60 ten miler. The rest/recovery should be only 1 minute. What has been your progression up to this point? What is the real goal during the XC upcoming season.

Fair. It was hot and I took more rest than I should have- more than I needed really.

Freshman year: 20:20, 5:05, 2:14, 10:57

Sophomore: 17:17, 4:45, 2:10,

Junior year goals: was 16:00 at the start of summer, although I don't think it's gonna happen honestly. Maybe 16:40

you could definitely do it. if you're doing 70ish minute 10 milers and that's easy then sub 60 shouldn't be a stretch. best way to tell though just sign up for a half and go all out for ten miles, and then jog the last 3. unless they actually have ten mile races wherever the heck you are.

You are still 10-12 weeks away from big races if you have confidence and you train properly. I ran similar times that you did as freshman and ran 16:25 as sophmore and even missed 10 days with shoulder injury from playing football. Keep your goals in perspective. If you want to go out and run a hard 10 miles to see what you can do fine but would rather have you look at the big picture.I would assume you are 4-6 weeks away from first meet of the fall and you should be getting in good mileage with a little bit of quality ie threhold work with a few sessions of short hills at some point. After XC go run your 10 miles under 60 if that is something you want to do but i wouldn't worry now about this.

when 5 minutes was hard wrote:

Have you tried it? As a kid I did it several times with no extra specific training.

Yes, tried.

Run 61 high in the same period when I was running sub 4:40 on the mile. When I race a half marathon during mid-D training I typically run 1:21-1:23.

Can run 1:18-1:19 (which is roughly equivalent to a 60 min/10 miler) if I train specifically for it, though. Again, as a mid-D runner, my performance gets progressively worse as the distance increases. This is just to say that it is not granted that a person running 4:45 on the mile would run 60 on the 10 miles.

coahc wrote:

You are still 10-12 weeks away from big races if you have confidence and you train properly. I ran similar times that you did as freshman and ran 16:25 as sophmore and even missed 10 days with shoulder injury from playing football. Keep your goals in perspective. If you want to go out and run a hard 10 miles to see what you can do fine but would rather have you look at the big picture.I would assume you are 4-6 weeks away from first meet of the fall and you should be getting in good mileage with a little bit of quality ie threhold work with a few sessions of short hills at some point. After XC go run your 10 miles under 60 if that is something you want to do but i wouldn't worry now about this.

That's pretty much how I'm training. I wasn't planning on running the 10 miles before xc. So you think 16:00 is a reasonable goal? Or 16:30?

Hypotheticals Are My Game wrote:

That's pretty much how I'm training. I wasn't planning on running the 10 miles before xc. So you think 16:00 is a reasonable goal? Or 16:30?

You lack the ability to run 16:00. Maybe 16:45 would be a good goal for you this season. Maybe 17:00. I don't know how much you'll improve but it sure won't be over a minute and no way can you run 16:00. And your dad is right. I peg you at 64:30 for 10 miles.

Reality checkers wrote:

Hypotheticals Are My Game wrote:

That's pretty much how I'm training. I wasn't planning on running the 10 miles before xc. So you think 16:00 is a reasonable goal? Or 16:30?

You lack the ability to run 16:00. Maybe 16:45 would be a good goal for you this season. Maybe 17:00. I don't know how much you'll improve but it sure won't be over a minute and no way can you run 16:00. And your dad is right. I peg you at 64:30 for 10 miles.

I'm late to this thread, but it was pretty interesting. Based on my reading the OP can def run 59:30ish in an ideal race. Also as far as xc goes: shoot for 16:00. If you're focused and you stay healthy you have a good chance at that. I think you could easily be in 16:30 shape after you shake the rust off.