NY Times Article on Nike Oregon Project implicates Ritz and Farah

It does exist wrote:

The spirit of sport is indeed in the code. This is common knowledge. What are you trying prove claiming it does not exist?

Source:

https://www.usada.org/wp-content/uploads/wada-2015-world-anti-doping-code.pdf

See page 14.

Is it your contention that somebody could be banned based on that language on page 14?

OG slum dog wrote:

Farrah isn't mentioned...

Yes, he is.

As previously reported by The Times of London, the report also said that Galen Rupp, an Olympic silver medalist, and Mo Farah of Britain, one of the most successful runners in Olympic history, also received infusions of L-carnitine. Rupp, Farah and Salazar have repeatedly rejected any claims that they violated antidoping rules.

So we don't know how many of the NOP athletes are on thyroid meds? Why were Dr. Brown's pt records requested?

Bleu wrote:

So we don't know how many of the NOP athletes are on thyroid meds? Why were Dr. Brown's pt records requested?

Several athletes, including Magness, Goucher, and Ritz, requested that their records be provided to USADA. Those records have been provided by Dr. Brown.

They have apparently requested other records and testimony from Dr. Brown but he has not given them, citing privacy laws.

We can name a lot of NOP athletes who have said they took thyroid meds, but I don't think we know all of them.

Re: the records and emails

Magness, Goucher, Ritzenhein and anyone else who has come out openly talking to USADA has passed on their medical records.

The NOP emails were obtained in the same way. Magness, Goucher, Ritzenhein, etc. handed over all e-mails to USADA.

i agree with spencer wrote:

again its not that hard, L-carnitine.....how again is it connected to doping? well what did we see about HGH and the thyroid?

so you take HGH, normal thyroid function gets out of wack, so you take huge dosages of vit D and L-carnitine to get things back to normal....or as you are micro dosing HGH you do large dosages of vit D, thyroid meds and L-carnitine to give you the boost as if you were taking big russian style dosages and you never come up dirty.

what other compounds and vits does salazar make his athletes take? does anyone know if taking EPO causes deficiencies of hormones or vits? my guess is that it does and his athletes are also taking them as well.

Taking EPO would potentially cause an iron deficiency if one didn't build up their ferritin beforehand. NOP wouldn't be messing around with the typical variants of EPO that athletes get popped for, though. Instead, someone with Salazar's cunning would almost assuredly be using some sort of EPO-mimetic that can't be tested for and one that doesn't change the oxygen carrying capacity by increasing the overall red blood cell mass, which would in turn be too easy to spot as the reticulocytes would fall below the standard 1% or thereabouts.

Instead, they'd likely be using something that was a little bit sneakier, which tricks the body into producing more 2,3-BPG to allow better lactate clearance. Interestingly, or maybe not so much, is the fact that increased levels of thyroid hormone have been shown to increase 2,3-BPG levels in addition to whatever else it does.

Personally, I don't think NOP has taken anything that makes a huge difference such as testosterone, epo or some other sort of oxygen-vector form of doping. Trying to find something such as injectible L-Carnitine that is not-yet-illegal definitely goes against the spirit of the sport, even if they had stayed within the legal

Agreed. In the summer of 2015 Erdmann said she hadn't had an infusion. Investigators reviewed emails, found one indicating she had had it, and at a later interview (when? no date given?) Erdmann admitted she had had the infusion but couldn't remember anything about it.But her 11,000x increase in L-carnitine levels was for anti-doping officials "evidence of illicit performance enhancement."When was that determined and why the &@#* haven't they done anything about it?

Nike Marketing Team wrote:

I'm tired of of these leaks and repetitive articles over the same thing. Like I said earlier, they have been investigating the NOP for two years.

Either go or get of the pot.

Mr. Obvious wrote:

It does exist wrote:

The spirit of sport is indeed in the code. This is common knowledge. What are you trying prove claiming it does not exist?

Source:

https://www.usada.org/wp-content/uploads/wada-2015-world-anti-doping-code.pdf

See page 14.

Is it your contention that somebody could be banned based on that language on page 14?

What? It is one of the three basic ban elements in WADA. Failure to comply with two out of the three effects a ban. You should know this. Are you the poster I replied to? My response was only to point out that spirit of sport does exist in the WADA code.

NOPing at the wheel wrote:

Re: the records and emails

Magness, Goucher, Ritzenhein and anyone else who has come out openly talking to USADA has passed on their medical records.

The NOP emails were obtained in the same way. Magness, Goucher, Ritzenhein, etc. handed over all e-mails to USADA.

Not a single current NOP athlete on is helping the USADA. Interesting.

Synthroid is the most prescribed medication in America...you all must think all those people are also microdosing and on EPO.

NopMails wrote:

NOPing at the wheel wrote:

Re: the records and emails

Magness, Goucher, Ritzenhein and anyone else who has come out openly talking to USADA has passed on their medical records.

The NOP emails were obtained in the same way. Magness, Goucher, Ritzenhein, etc. handed over all e-mails to USADA.

Not a single current NOP athlete on is helping the USADA. Interesting.

Wouldn't be surprised if NOP's medical budget is more than Brooks Beast's ENTIRE budget. What results would Saladbar get if he were coaching Zap Fitness.

It does exist wrote:

Mr. Obvious wrote:

Is it your contention that somebody could be banned based on that language on page 14?

What? It is one of the three basic ban elements in WADA. Failure to comply with two out of the three effects a ban. You should know this. Are you the poster I replied to? My response was only to point out that spirit of sport does exist in the WADA code.

No, I am not the poster you replied to at least not directly, although I have been commenting about the WADA code and the fact the Celebrex (and thyroid and l-carnitine for that matter) are not on it.

I think you are mistaken in your reading of the code. Violating the "spirit of sport" is one of the three elements by which they evaluate substances and methods for placement on the "prohibited list." It is important to note that UKAD asked WADA to add thyroid medication to the prohibited list in 2015 and it was evaluated and rejected under those criteria. (link at bottom of post).

The original statement I made that got this whole "spirit of sport" thing started was that thyroid medication was not on the prohibited list and therefore was irrelevant. Somebody replied that they could still be banned under the "spirit of sport" clause. I don't believe that the "spirit of sport" operates as an independent criteria that way. I do not know of any precedent under which anybody has been banned for such a method or substance. I do not think such a ban would survive a challenge to CAS. I especially don't think a suspension for thyroid could survive given that WADA has explicitly said it does not meet criteria for inclusion on their list and that scientists were unanimous in their recommendation and conclusion.

The one thing that is somewhat similar and might cause confusion is that people can be banned for analogues, such as taking THG. This is explicitly spelled out in the WADA code and is not based on the "spirit of sport" clause.

NOPing at the wheel wrote:

Re: the records and emails

Magness, Goucher, Ritzenhein and anyone else who has come out openly talking to USADA has passed on their medical records.

The NOP emails were obtained in the same way. Magness, Goucher, Ritzenhein, etc. handed over all e-mails to USADA.

It is possible that some of the material (and particularly the medical records were obtained this way.

Nike also claims in a statement provided for the below article, to have released thousands of pages of documents to USADA as well.

Spirit of sport is partially related to banning an element. Attempting to get an edge over the competition and using something that is not ban to get that edge is what WADA is trying to address. In other words: there is no hard line in the sand. Spirit of sport is one of the ways WADA is using to kept ahead of dopers. That is its intent.

Down with Nike and Saladbar!!!!!!!!!

i agree with spencer wrote:

again its not that hard, L-carnitine.....how again is it connected to doping? well what did we see about HGH and the thyroid?

read this

http://www.lifeextension.com/magazine/2007/12/report_thyroid/page-01

so you take HGH, normal thyroid function gets out of wack, so you take huge dosages of vit D and L-carnitine to get things back to normal....or as you are micro dosing HGH you do large dosages of vit D, thyroid meds and L-carnitine to give you the boost as if you were taking big russian style dosages and you never come up dirty.

what other compounds and vits does salazar make his athletes take? does anyone know if taking EPO causes deficiencies of hormones or vits? my guess is that it does and his athletes are also taking them as well.

poster formerly known as Mundu wrote:

Old allegations but now appearing in high definition:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/19/sports/nike-oregon-project-alberto-salazar-dathan-ritzenhein.html?_r=0

The line in the sand is 50ml limit and any medication that is prescribed to someone who doesn't need it. If medical records have been altered and this is proven then its called "Cheating". If Alberto and his athletes can stay between the lines and or "toe the line" then there shouldn't be an issue. Unfortunately, like a drug addict the "High" one receives from running fast will keep rising and rising to which it will be unavoidable not to cross the line or swerve out of their lane. Its just a matter of time.

It does exist wrote:

Spirit of sport is partially related to banning an element. Attempting to get an edge over the competition and using something that is not ban to get that edge is what WADA is trying to address. In other words: there is no hard line in the sand. Spirit of sport is one of the ways WADA is using to kept ahead of dopers. That is its intent.

We are simply going to have to agree to disagree on this.

I would be interested if you know of any case under which somebody has been banned under this standard?

People always say Salazar listens to the line of the rules and does nothing to cross the line...

How is that remotely possible when medical documents have been altered (missing page, replaced). And in some cases medical documents not recorded??? Just because they didn't record 50+ml doesn't mean it wasn't administered. Salazar is a slimey f--k.

BUTTHOLE SURFER wrote:

The line in the sand is 50ml limit and any medication that is prescribed to someone who doesn't need it. If medical records have been altered and this is proven then its called "Cheating". If Alberto and his athletes can stay between the lines and or "toe the line" then there shouldn't be an issue. Unfortunately, like a drug addict the "High" one receives from running fast will keep rising and rising to which it will be unavoidable not to cross the line or swerve out of their lane. Its just a matter of time.

Altering medical records is a serious issue for Dr. Brown, if it can be shown that he did it.

In itself, I do not know that an altered medical record would be cause for banning somebody. Surely taking a prohibited substance and then having it altered to conceal it would be a cause for banning, although you would have to prove the underlying taking a prohibited substance, not just the alteration. I would posit a changed medical record would count against the athlete, especially since the standard in a doping case is not "beyond a reasonable doubt" but "comfortable satisfaction."

In this case, the issue is that the altered record in question is from Dathan Ritzenheim, who is not the target of the investigation. That is why they are trying to use the altered record as leverage to cause the Texas Medical Board to take action against Dr. Brown.