mid pack runner wrote:
I'm just wondering about the hobby joggers/weekend warriors. They go untested. Are they doping too? Thoughts?
Hobby joggers are more into running apparel & fluid belts. But have you seen some of these weekend warriors race...big, muscular guys running fast times off of little mileage. It does make one wonder 🤔.
How could anybody who follows this sport not already know Rosa's people are dirty? Everybody who remotely pays attention knows Asbel is dirty.
Who cares? I'm guessing that most people on here, like me, didn't even know who the women's Olympic marathon champ was until reading this headline.
rojo wrote:
Letting a high profile gold medalist get caught is clearly not their usual MO.
That's one accusation I've never really understood. We've had busts of Ben Johnson, the Russians, Mary Slaney, Justin Gatlin and more. Lots of high profile people.
Now could there be others that weren't announced? I guess it's possible.
why is this a suprise to anyone. All and I mean all of the top distance runners are cheating. The only suprise is when they actually get caught
Rojo,
Will you ask Boston and London and every major marathon why they invite Rosa and their athletes to their race?
A court of law may be innocent until proven guilty but that is not the case for these events. They do not have to invite anyone that they suspect.
well there were cases were athletes paid money to officials of the nation organisations to be "forgotten". If a system like this exists and works then one has to guess that we dont hear anything in most cases.
douglas burke wrote:
sundown wrote:You're the guy always trumpeting these athletes whose superiority may well be based largely on drugs. Why didn't Kenyans and Ethiopians dominate the world until the Italian coaches arrived, along with EPO, in the 1990s? They were very good and very competitive but could be beaten and often were. Now everyone can run 2:05 or better on the men's side and 1:04-6 halfs on the women's side, while running 30-31 enroute.
Some of them are obviously n drugs as are athletes from all countries including the USA and the cheating will get worse as countries become more secular because people who believe this is the only life we get wont worry about having to explain to God their wrongdoings, I blast cheaters, but not excessively as I have done and thought so much wrong, they are probably angels by comparison.
Anyway if it is all drugs why wouldn't these Italian Coaches use them on Italian runners who were at one time great with Cova, Antibo, Panetta, Baldini etc. If they made stars out of their own countrymen and other Europeans who would be far more marketable than Africans, and if the coaches are getting a percentage of their runners earnings, it would make sense to cheat using European Runners who would make them a LOT more money.
Also Italian and European runners are not only not as good as the Africans, they are not as good as their countrymen and continentmen who are now in their 60's and 70's Example Chris Thompson with his 27:27 for 10000 is about 20th on the European list (Not Counting Africans running for Europe) and Danielle Mucci with his 27:32 (Born 1985) is 35th, these are the only 2 Europeans born after 1980 who have run under 27:45 the qualifying time to get into Worlds.
It would not even look suspicious if they ran faster than their countrymen who were in their prime 30-40 or more years ago.
Maybe they went to Africa because the testing system was/is a complete joke when compared to even the limited success of the western anti doping agencies. Doping is even more effective when you have free reign to take whatever you want whenever you want then if you have to plan it around dodging tests.
Plus its much easier to convice someone to accept the heallth risks associated with doping in a country where age expenctancy sucks so much the economic gain doping will probably get easily outweighs the downsides of any future effect on your longterm health.
So I guess biwott is doped too
The title of this thread should be "AUNT JEMIMA GOES HOME DEVESTATED!"
They are nearly all doped Queens, that's the point.
As for Renato Canova; never understood the captivation with him, it all seemed so transparent.
FWS wrote:
Rojo,
Will you ask Boston and London and every major marathon why they invite Rosa and their athletes to their race?
A court of law may be innocent until proven guilty but that is not the case for these events. They do not have to invite anyone that they suspect.
Best post in the thread.
Just another guy wrote:
Did those Kenyan runners from the 80's just not care as much as they do now? Because now you got 70 or 80 Africans now running as good or better than the best Africans of the 80's, and some those guys have marginal coaching.
In contrast, you have run crazy country, in Japan, that is extremely dilligent agaisnt doping, that has basically disappeared from the world scene in the same time frame of the African take over. (For reference in 1966, 15 of the top 17 marathon times were japanese)
It makes me feel better when I just eliminate the ethiopian kenyan turkish and russian results from any distance race. And the Jamaicans from any sprint.
Doping is obviously a problem in Kenya but don't pretend there aren't way more Kenyan runners competing now than in the 1980s. To say they are all doping is way too simplistic.
sundown wrote:
Wait a minute. Ethiopian and Kenyan runners, like others in their countries, are extremely likely to be religious, as are Moroccans. That is clearly no major hurdle to doping. This has nothing to do with secularism. It is about ca$h and fame. As for European runners, they have allowed themselves to be mentally defeated by the idea of African superiority so that most don't compete and don't believe they can compete. If it turns out at that African superiority has been based largely on cheating, more's the pity. But Americans are performing better than in the 1980s and with good results in Rio when the Kenyan men were mysteriously hors de combat for the most part, but largely on the outside and dominated, despite having many guys at low 13 and quite a few sub 13, and other comparable times. On the circuit, seven Kenyans and a few others might beat all the Americans, if the Americans are even in the race, but then sometimes at the Championships where drug testing may actually take place and occasionally be publicized, we're a lot closer.
You can't cherry pick your data. Sumgong, Kipchoge, Rudisha, Kipyegon all won the Olympics. One reason we're a lot cloer at the Olympics is only 3 Kenyans and Ethiopians are allowed to enter and there are no rabbits.
There is drug testing at Diamond League events.
My point is saying "All Kenyans are doping" is way too simplistic. Just as is "All Americans are clean"
Yo puedo wrote:
So it's ok to literally have a pair of testicles that produce make amounts of testosterone, but it ok to use epo? Ok, got it. Clear as mud.
Nothing could be less clear than this post.
The Rio Games were months ago and now we get news of a positive test? Retarded.
First time I heard ROSA was in the late 80's when a local NY BOY , Pat Peterson, went from a local schmo to 2:11 after a trip to Italy. And this guy had the worst running form ever.
Also, what about the ex-Kenyans that are now U-S-A?
wejo wrote:
My point is saying "All Kenyans are doping" is way too simplistic. Just as is "All Americans are clean"
I'm willing to split the difference and say that most world class runners are dirty.
PatP wrote:
First time I heard ROSA was in the late 80's when a local NY BOY , Pat Peterson, went from a local schmo to 2:11 after a trip to Italy. And this guy had the worst running form ever.
Also, what about the ex-Kenyans that are now U-S-A?
Pat Peterson's Wiki page says he is a former AR holder in the marathon. That's "utter drivel". BTW, sad to read he passed away so young.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Petersen7th? wrote:
Is it terrible that I now have doubts about some of our top women? All these women are doping but ours aren't? This thought has not crossed my mind until today.
Are you serious? Why did you only start having doubts about some of our top women after this? What's so special about our runners?
wejo, You're the simplistic one here.How can some one compete with a bunch of dope-to-the-gills* athletes at the elite level in a country? It's not that no Kenyan athletes are clean, but that the clean ones just wouldn't/couldn't get a chance to compete under that circumstance.When there's only a handful few cheats, we can expect to see some clean athletes with special talents still make their way to the podium, if they are lucky. More than a handful few are cheating, talents and hard working have practically no chance. period.
wejo wrote:
Just another guy wrote:Did those Kenyan runners from the 80's just not care as much as they do now? Because now you got 70 or 80 Africans now running as good or better than the best Africans of the 80's, and some those guys have marginal coaching.
In contrast, you have run crazy country, in Japan, that is extremely dilligent agaisnt doping, that has basically disappeared from the world scene in the same time frame of the African take over. (For reference in 1966, 15 of the top 17 marathon times were japanese)
It makes me feel better when I just eliminate the ethiopian kenyan turkish and russian results from any distance race. And the Jamaicans from any sprint.
Doping is obviously a problem in Kenya but don't pretend there aren't way more Kenyan runners competing now than in the 1980s. To say they are all doping is way too simplistic.
sundown wrote:
Wait a minute. Ethiopian and Kenyan runners, like others in their countries, are extremely likely to be religious, as are Moroccans. That is clearly no major hurdle to doping. This has nothing to do with secularism. It is about ca$h and fame. As for European runners, they have allowed themselves to be mentally defeated by the idea of African superiority so that most don't compete and don't believe they can compete. If it turns out at that African superiority has been based largely on cheating, more's the pity. But Americans are performing better than in the 1980s and with good results in Rio when the Kenyan men were mysteriously hors de combat for the most part, but largely on the outside and dominated, despite having many guys at low 13 and quite a few sub 13, and other comparable times. On the circuit, seven Kenyans and a few others might beat all the Americans, if the Americans are even in the race, but then sometimes at the Championships where drug testing may actually take place and occasionally be publicized, we're a lot closer.
You can't cherry pick your data. Sumgong, Kipchoge, Rudisha, Kipyegon all won the Olympics. One reason we're a lot cloer at the Olympics is only 3 Kenyans and Ethiopians are allowed to enter and there are no rabbits.
There is drug testing at Diamond League events.
My point is saying "All Kenyans are doping" is way too simplistic. Just as is "All Americans are clean"