Intersex clean sweep in the 800!

wtfunny wrote:

The very same people who argue that Caster would have to use a woman's locker room are the ones saying she should not be allowed to compete as a woman. That inconsistency alone suggests the reasons that underlie their positions aren't what they proclaim them to be.

Nice strawman there, but no, this is not true. Argue the point at hand.

SO my only question is: Will Oiselle try to add the top trio to their roster?

track chick wrote:

You can't really go on what people look like. There are tonnes of women all over the world who would pass as guys and they're women. I have friends who are butch lesbians and you would think they're guys, who cares, they're not.

eg kd lang

http://images.wolfgangsvault.com/images/catalog/detail/ZZZ005293-PP.jpg

You're being kind of bigoted aren't you? Seem to have a distaste for Trump but might be a bigger name-caller than him.

Justice4caster wrote:

Read this article for education on your ways of thinking

Found this amazing article online:

http://everydayfeminism.com/20...-athletes/

This really is an excellent article. I like this part the best

"2. Ask: “What does racism and nationalism have to do with my ignorance and comfort with questioning, if not humiliating, others?”"

I think that explains most of the narrow mindedness that goes on around here.

_________________________________________

Actually, this article evades the most important question at stake here which is this: what is the basis upon which we divide women and men into categories for the basis of athletic competition?

The fact that racism and nationalism undergird SOME reactions to Semenya does not mean that the entire question of whether she should compete is wrong-headed or unethical.

It's much easier to say that Semenya, even if she is intersex, ought to be allowed to compete, but it's much more complicated to address my original question. I keep seeing that researcher, Katrina Karkazis (medical bioethicist), arguing that people are overreacting to the intersex issue because the condition is incredibly rare. But actually, intersex conditions aren't that rare. I've seen estimates as high as 1/100 births. So, it's not absurd or reactionary to be concerned that intersex women in the women's category could make it nearly impossible for XX women to compete for medals on the world stage.

All of this evades one of feminism's most difficult questions, which has to do with the crisis of representation. If we define the category "women," especially on biological or physiological terms, we exclude and discriminate against those who don't meet our exact definition. But, if we make the category too capacious, we might erase the category "women" altogether. In the case of elite athletics, if we broaden the category of women too much, we might end up with a situation that nearly excludes XX women.

And what about Caitlyn Jenner? Is she not a woman? If she were 25 years old, should she be able to compete in the women's category?

Certainly, gender is not completely binary. But, we have binary gender categories in sports for pretty good reasons. We can either choose to get rid of the binary in athletics, which which case XX women and probably XY women will not be able to compete on the world stage against XY men, we can keep the existing categories and exclude people based upon some defined gender binary, or we can create more than two gender categories. I guess we could also get rid of the world stage of athletics.

I really, sincerely, want to know what people like Karzakis envision for women's sports or sports in general. I want to know as a feminist and as a track fan. Elite athletics is about testing the limits of the human body. It may well be true that most biological and physiological research about sex differences is ensconced in cultural ideologies about gender, but it is also true that there are differences in the maximum capacity of differently sexed bodies at the elite level. If we ignore this, especially in a world where women's bodies are devalued, we might end up with a situation whereby XX women are marginalized on the basis of their "unruly" and "inferior" bodies.

Angry Anderson wrote:

I hate when the LRC's black and white view of the world is challenged.

How many different categories can someone compete for the 800m at the Olympics? Is there a grey category? Or isn't it just male or female? How do you decide which one you are allowed to race in? Why aren't men allowed to race in the female category?

Mrs. M wrote:

SO my only question is: Will Oiselle try to add the top trio to their roster?

She actually posted on Twitter, which I was happy to see, that she did not believe Caster Semenya should be competing in the women's 800.

TheRealDMC wrote:

When did Letsrun become Donald Trumps new platform for discrimination.

People are trying to explain it to you and you're just spitting out labels that don't have anything to do with any points made, and generic insults.

How do you contribute anything to a discussion with a low level of empathy?

GD wrote:

Actually, this article evades the most important question at stake here which is this: what is the basis upon which we divide women and men into categories for the basis of athletic competition?

.....

It's much easier to say that Semenya, even if she is intersex, ought to be allowed to compete, but it's much more complicated to address my original question.

Exactly. None of the "justice for caster" articles I've read offer any solution about how to delineate athletes into men's and women's sports. It's so much easier to criticize a policy than it is to actually come up with one and defend it against other policies (or the lack of them).

Semenya "Semen" "Ya" is a hermaphrodite and I think they should have a special race or olympic category for hermaphrodites. This is so absurd to have women race against Semenya.

http://www.betus.com.pa/sports-betting/other/articles/caster-semenya-gender-results-south-african-runner-is-a-hermaphrodite

Yes these narrow minded people are terrible. I also believe that you should be allowed to compete in any race you want regardless of gender , genetics etc.

I intend to take on and beat usain bolt at next years world championships 100m. However as I am 5/8 and he is 6/5 I will be started from the 30m line. If anyone objects I will just say I am being discrimated against for being a short a*se.

Let's all learn from Caster

Asked how, exactly, she felt she had made a difference to her sport she replied: “I think it is all about loving one another. It’s not about discriminating against people. It is not about looking at how people look, how they speak, how they run, it is not about being muscular. It is all about sport. When you walk out of your apartment you think about performing, you do not think about how your opponent looks. So I think the advice from me to everybody is just to go out there and have fun.”

Justice4caster wrote:

Let's all learn from Caster

Asked how, exactly, she felt she had made a difference to her sport she replied: “I think it is all about loving one another. It’s not about discriminating against people. It is not about looking at how people look, how they speak, how they run, it is not about being muscular. It is all about sport. When you walk out of your apartment you think about performing, you do not think about how your opponent looks. So I think the advice from me to everybody is just to go out there and have fun.”

_______________________________

Are you going to actually address anything I posed above? There is no argument in this quote. Athletics is inherently discriminatory. The question here is what sort of categories (and categories are inherently discriminatory) are the most defensible.

nearest hippie wrote:

Mrs. M wrote:

SO my only question is: Will Oiselle try to add the top trio to their roster?

She actually posted on Twitter, which I was happy to see, that she did not believe Caster Semenya should be competing in the women's 800.

Oiselle doesn't make singlets big enough for manly women.

There is no "right answer".

You either compromise the rights of a small group of people (intersex and transgender athletes) or compromise the right for women to compete in a protected class of sport. It's an either or scenario.

Also, y'all need to get educated about biology. It's not so simple as "she's a man". I also keep seeing XXY pop up. XXY is Klinefelter Syndrome and would make phenotypic makes with builds along the line of Louis CK. Not conducive to a fast 800. As far as I know, Semenya has never released a formal diagnosis. From what I've read, a likely candidate is AIS (androgen insensitivity syndrome) which has a wild spectrum of sensitivity to androgens. Individuals with AIS are genetically XY males, but have large phenotypic variation. For example, Jaimee Lee Curtis has AIS but she has COMPLETE insensitivity to androgens. She would have high levels of testosterone but absolutely no androgenized features. Should she be allowed to compete in women's sport? Of course. The issue gets much more blurred with PAIS because you don't know how sensitive an individual is to androgens. The actual testosterone number doesn't really matter.

All that being said, I felt terrible for Bishop who I've watched compete since starting in the Canadian University system. It really is a visceral reaction.

macdaddy wrote:

celery wrote:

My favorite part of this event was the athlete introduction.... they showed Jozwik blow a kiss to the camera.

...I'm so glad Jozwik took the opportunity to show what a fully female athlete is like.

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LOL. That's what it takes to be a "fully female athlete"?

You gotta be kidding me.

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Like most SJW people, you failed to comprehend the meaning of my post. When Jozwik blew a kiss to the camera, she wasn't doing what it takes to be "fully female." Instead, her kiss was just evidence that she already has "what it takes to be fully female." Namely, the LACK of any Y chromosome genetic material or any other mutation that caused her body to follow any biologically male development pathways.

You will probably attempt to characterize my use of the term "biologically male development pathway" as ignorant. But unless you have at least a bachelors degree in Biology, you don't understand what I mean. So don't hurt yourself trying to argue with me.

"I can't believe that in 2016 you ignorant people still think that because someone is different that they don't deserve what they have worked their whole life for. Yet you want to make excuses for Ryan Lochte because he was drunk, he's 31 years old and still a child. You racist, sexist and bigoted people blow my freaking mind. "

They're MEN. They have XY chromosomes, not two X chromosomes. It's 1000 times more unfair than doping. What the hell does this have to do with ignorance? Why would you assume people commenting in this thread are neanderthal Trump supporters?

It is YOU who is the ignorant little bitch on the WRONG SIDE OF HISTORY. The emperor has no clothes!!!!!!!!!!

This travesty will only last for so long before there are massive protests and boycots asking for a level playing field for actual women.

Jaqeme wrote:

"I can't believe that in 2016 you ignorant people still think that because someone is different that they don't deserve what they have worked their whole life for. Yet you want to make excuses for Ryan Lochte because he was drunk, he's 31 years old and still a child. You racist, sexist and bigoted people blow my freaking mind. "

They're MEN. They have XY chromosomes, not two X chromosomes. It's 1000 times more unfair than doping. What the hell does this have to do with ignorance? Why would you assume people commenting in this thread are neanderthal Trump supporters?

It is YOU who is the ignorant little bitch on the WRONG SIDE OF HISTORY. The emperor has no clothes!!!!!!!!!!

This travesty will only last for so long before there are massive protests and boycots asking for a level playing field for actual women.

lol youre kind ofa liberal aren't you, and you dont know where to go with this. You've prided yourself on being an "open minded" LGBT flag waving, feminist, social justice warrior, but its going to far now and its spiraling. You dont like Trump so youre a lefty, but leftists are cannibalizing themselves with this trans issue. FEminism vs Transgenders and the gay mafia. Liberalism imploding in on itself. Its great it shows that lefitsm cannot possibly be without disaster and implosion.

Using a pejorative like "SJW" is a great signalling mechanism for letting people know that they should totally discount anything else you have to say.