Boardman in Ohio wasn't that tough but times were always super, super slow there. Maybe it was the mud.
Not HS but All-Ohio college XC race in Delaware was insane. Huge hills for the entire 8k course.
Boardman in Ohio wasn't that tough but times were always super, super slow there. Maybe it was the mud.
Not HS but All-Ohio college XC race in Delaware was insane. Huge hills for the entire 8k course.
JKSparky wrote:
"Rimrock in Lawrence, KS is the toughest XC course I've personally run, and it used to be even tougher, with a BRUTAL ascent at the 4200m mark, and a sharp hairpin turn at the end of a downhill that was notorious for causing wipeouts."
Paul Roberts from CO tore this Rimrock course up for a 15:10 last year!
NOT HARD.
Again, Battle Mountain @ Beaver Creek = hardest. No contest
Would agree rimrock isn't hard. But I don't think the battle mountain meet counts as major. If we get into those kinda meets the ouray meet is the hardest.
Well, already lots of votes in for Hereford, Brandywine, and Holmdel, but those are the three toughest I ran in my day as well. Holmdel is by far the easiest of the three. I'd have to say Hereford takes the cake over Brandywine because consider that it's only 3 miles and not a full 5k. In a lot of ways it was really just having to navigate the dip or cleavage twice, but that was enough.
I'd love to have run on a few of these other nightmare courses. Mt. SAC always looked hard, but times suggest people find a way more than they do on a few of these other monstrosities. Considering how it feels running above 8000 ft (at least for me), that Colorado course seems to occupy rare air (pun intended). I know courses can't exist in vacuum but I wonder if altitude were removed where it might rank.
Brianruns10 wrote:
Rimrock in Lawrence, KS is the toughest XC course I've personally run, and it used to be even tougher, with a BRUTAL ascent at the 4200m mark, and a sharp hairpin turn at the end of a downhill that was notorious for causing wipeouts.
I am glad that someone brought up Rim Rock. The first mile is deceptively hilly as well and don't forget the steep hill after the covered bridge at mile 1.5.
I have also run Hereford and Brandywine. Rim Rock is definitely harder than Brandywine.
BMORE SPICY BOIZ, what school are you referring to, or even what year, and I can probably figure it out. The only schools that would race on that course are from the MIAA.
I know this is not what the OP was asking but my hs course on the banks of Lake Ontario was probably the most interesting. The course hit pretty much every terrain which made shoe selection challenging. Started on road with a tight downhill/uphill loop. Next the course went into the woods on grass, then a heavily rooted single track loop deep in the woods. You then had to scale about a 20 foot vertical climb (rope provided to help the ascent). You had the option to bypass this ascent but it added more distance. The course ended up with a stretch on the beach and then another uphill to the finish. At least two minutes slower than any other course I ran.
I ran 15:35 for 5k and ran 19:30 on the Susquenita High School course. No big meet there but by far the toughest.
To MI Strongest,
I get that anything in Chicago area does not compare to the courses described in this thread. Just interested to see which two courses you think are the most challenging in the area?
Lockport? Katherine Legge?
I ran at Bullfrog Lake / Pulaski Woods (near Maple Lake), 95th and dead end of Wolf Road in the 70s. My high school changed to a flatter course at different forest preserve closer to the school years later. The Bullfrog Lake course had some pretty big hills on both sides of the lake in those days, but the place does not look the same since the forest preserve district has added new pavilions on the north side of the lake and softened the hills on the south side. I don't think any other teams have courses there now. Argo high school moved theirs closer to their school, too, now around athletic fields.
Sometimes I think it is all about the course / trails where you train. I think Sandburg goes to Teason's Woods / Swallow Cliff and Neuqua Valley and Naperville North girls go to Blackwell / Mount Hoy. Having XC meets at those venues would really be something! Top teams getting more hill work in practice than they would ever see at any meet course in the area or state meet at Detweiller.
The Palos Verdes Cross Country Course (AKA Peninsula Cross Country Course (Lunada Bay)
It's depicted in the book "Cross Country 101."
The story is a fictional account of a high school cross country team... but that course is real... and really tough!!
i remember Ft Meigs just outside of Toledo as being a terribly difficult course, but when i went back as an adult 30 years later, the hill seems to have gotten a lot smaller.
If you want to throw in a lesser known New Jersey course, Id have to definitely say Garret Mountain in Passaic County. I personally put it up to par with Holmdel since the times from both courses are similar (Ches has the course record at Garret and Holmdel, with the same time - 14:53). Hes the only highschooler to have broken 15 at Garret. Besides that, the site holds a lot of invitationals and state sectionals and anything below 16 is considered remarkable.
The course has a different layout than holmdel though. The course is winding and rocky. Very hilly throughout, theres never really a flat section of the course until the back of the lake around mile 2. 400m in theres a decent uphill. One downhill at about a mile mark that always has 1 kid busting his a$$ because the gravel is so damn loose and kids cant grip their shoes onto it. Kids love to take it out fast because of this downhill, but its always a big mistake. mile 2.1 is around a lake, with small hills pocketed throughout. Last mile goes through part of the lake again, with last 800 all uphill... IMO, the last 800 uphill is probably worse than the bowl, just because its so long and it doesnt stop elevating until the last 50 meters towards the finish(where everybody sprints). That last up hill is a killer, if youre tired by the time you reach it, you're a goner...
Obviously it's impossible for this to be an objective list because few people have sampled the hardest courses in every state to make a valid comparison. Furthermore, the majority of posters on this thread are from the Eastern part of this country, thus giving the impression that the East has the hardest courses (although Colorado has gotten some attention).
To balance this out, I'm going to mention the Round Lake course at Camas, WA. Brutal hills and even an occasional black bear wandering the course (at least in 2012). The course record for Males is 17:19 and for Females is 19:51 by a certain Alexa Efraimson (I assume everyone here knows who she is!).
Here is a new one. In Western Connecticut, the Bethel High School course, it has hosted an invitational and a conference championship each year for the last 9 or 10 years. The girls course record is 18:38 and the guys course record is 15:23. many post season runners have run that course during that period. One very big hill just before the 2 mile mark called " the beast", as well as a bunch of smaller challenging hills.
The course did change a few years ago, it is now about 20-30 seconds faster. This year will also be the be first year they won't host the invitational, they will still hold states
wccelder wrote:
It isn't the hardest, but it is up there, the Hereford HS course in Maryland. They hold the bull run invitational there every year and the state champs. I thought I remember reading that the course has changed in the past few years however I am not sure.
Gale Woods is brutal; that's where the famous Lake Conference out of Minnesota races at. The whole course is hilly. While I'm talking about MN course, the Griak course on the University of Minnesota golf course is almost as worst.
Veteran's Acres in Crystal Lake, Illinois. A few years ago for some unknown reason they softened it up a bit by eliminating the first hill. I was disappointed to see that, but it still remains incredibly tough.
One overlooked factor that makes Brandywine even more difficult is the drainage situation near the mile mark, before Maintenance hill. About half the time the course is run, there's a few inches of mud/ standing water in several big patches near this area. You hit Maintenance hill with soaking wet feet and a couple ounces of mud on each spike...
Ghost of Jack O'Leary wrote:
Holmdel NJ state, maybe Morris Hills for dual meets?
Greystone= HARDEST course in America.
concrete course is the hardest, its up there with marble meadows
Kid from somewhere wrote:
JKSparky wrote:"Rimrock in Lawrence, KS is the toughest XC course I've personally run, and it used to be even tougher, with a BRUTAL ascent at the 4200m mark, and a sharp hairpin turn at the end of a downhill that was notorious for causing wipeouts."
Paul Roberts from CO tore this Rimrock course up for a 15:10 last year!
NOT HARD.
Again, Battle Mountain @ Beaver Creek = hardest. No contest
Would agree rimrock isn't hard. But I don't think the battle mountain meet counts as major. If we get into those kinda meets the ouray meet is the hardest.
Battle Mountain runs full size invitational with Varsity over 100 and JVs at 200 runners. Boys and Girls combined = over 500. The past few years, plenty of NXN SW Teams do this meet including powerhouses Cheyenne Mountain and Durango (each a CO state champ team, the past two years)
Ouray is neither harder (not even close to the climb length and drop) nor has that race ever seen 500 participants. More like 30ish.) Battle Mountain still reigns.