wtfunny wrote:
Still waiting for someone here, anyone, to point out any real injury or damage this kid caused anyone else.
I posted several things wrong with it a few posts back - but you don't seem capable of anything but sarcastic rejoinders from left field. Get off your high horse please.
"high horse" doesn't mean what you appear to think it means. you folks are the ones claiming some kind of ethical or moral high horse here.You mean when you said this
There are many things wrong with it. Given that some XC programs are being cut, it costs money to host these meets, and he's wasting it. He's doing his teammates a disservice - anyone from 1st to 200th can help create a positive culture of excellence. When my teammate won state we all knew we were a small part of that accomplishment, too. He attracted useless attention.
The local Turkey Trot would be much more appropriate for this, at least he'd be spending his own money and running as an individual.
Basically that he's wasting money and not contributing to a "positive culture of excellence"? Attracting useless attention?
I asked who he harmed and how; not an opinion on whether he did his "teammates a disservice"; all you did is basically whine about it because you didn't like what he did, but you didn't show any harm whatsoever.
The money spent to host that XC meet .. please tell me how that money was somehow less "wasted" had he not taken his selfie, because I really don't see how his actions detract from or increase the cost of this event. At all.
wtfunny wrote:
"high horse" doesn't mean what you appear to think it means. you folks are the ones claiming some kind of ethical or moral high horse here.
I know exactly what it means and it definitely applies to you and how much better you think you are at enjoying life than we.
wtfunny wrote:
You mean when you said this
There are many things wrong with it. Given that some XC programs are being cut, it costs money to host these meets, and he's wasting it. He's doing his teammates a disservice - anyone from 1st to 200th can help create a positive culture of excellence. When my teammate won state we all knew we were a small part of that accomplishment, too. He attracted useless attention.The local Turkey Trot would be much more appropriate for this, at least he'd be spending his own money and running as an individual.
Basically that he's wasting money and not contributing to a "positive culture of excellence"? Attracting useless attention?
I asked who he harmed and how; not an opinion on whether he did his "teammates a disservice"; all you did is basically whine about it because you didn't like what he did, but you didn't show any harm whatsoever.
Doing them a disservice IS harming them. Putting it in quotation marks doesn't make it any less valid.
wtfunny wrote:
The money spent to host that XC meet .. please tell me how that money was somehow less "wasted" had he not taken his selfie, because I really don't see how his actions detract from or increase the cost of this event. At all.
Explain how many schools can't afford cross country or have to limit their teams because of entry fees or gas money. Now imagine that some of that money, however little, was wasted on a kid who didn't want to be there - he cared more about Facebook likes than racing. You would think he could show some respect.
caller outer wrote:
You said earlier that he's just trying to have fun. All of the things I listed would be the kid just trying to have fun during the race. I would frown upon them as a coach just as I would frown upon the selfie.
wtfunny wrote:
Not all things are equal, hence the analogies are rather pointless, imo.
So we are in agreement that there is a line that shouldn't be crossed in terms of selfishly searching for ways to have fun - we are just in disagreement on which side of the line sprinting to the front and taking a selfie falls on?
caller outer wrote:
If I was not associated with the program and I saw a kid cartwheel 5000m, yes I would laugh. If I was associated with the program, not so much.
wtfunny wrote:
I would hope that should depend somewhat on the program. No?
Why would it depend on the program?
college xc runner wrote:
I know exactly what it means and it definitely applies to you and how much better you think you are at enjoying life than we.
I didn't say, or suggest, anything of the kind. I know nothing about you; certainly not enough to cast aspersions on whether you enjoy life, or to what degree. Much like, say, how much you know about this kid; and yet you feel confident enough to cast aspersions about his character.
Doing them a disservice IS harming them. Putting it in quotation marks doesn't make it any less valid.
You didn't say what disservice was done to them, nor did you say what that even means.
Explain how many schools can't afford cross country or have to limit their teams because of entry fees or gas money. Now imagine that some of that money, however little, was wasted on a kid who didn't want to be there - he cared more about Facebook likes than racing. You would think he could show some respect.
You have no idea whether ANY of ^this^ applies to the situation or not. You don't know whether he wanted to be there. What he cared/s about and to what degree. How much respect he shows his peers, his coaches, or anyone else involved in the sport.
You see a snapshot in time of a single event in the course of one race and you ridicule a teenage kid for it. There's your high horse.
wtfunny wrote:
Still waiting for someone here, anyone, to point out any real injury or damage this kid caused anyone else.
I would say that the amount of backlash seen in just the sample size of the LRC forum is enough evidence that it led to negative feelings about the team and school he represented.
caller outer wrote:
I would say that the amount of backlash seen in just the sample size of the LRC forum is enough evidence that it led to negative feelings about the team and school he represented.
An anonymous forum, none of whom have said anything negative about the team or the school he represented. Uhhmmm, sure.
caller outer wrote:
So we are in agreement that there is a line that shouldn't be crossed in terms of selfishly searching for ways to have fun - we are just in disagreement on which side of the line sprinting to the front and taking a selfie falls on?
Oh, absolutely.
caller outer wrote:
Why would it depend on the program?
Because not all programs have the same athletes, the same history, the same goals and purposes, and on and on. Just as not all races are the same.
Watch this
https://youtu.be/o-urnlaJpOA?t=31sI suppose you think he should also have been punished for disrespecting his competitors, his team, his coach and the world?
wtfunny wrote:
Still waiting for someone here, anyone, to point out any real injury or damage this kid caused anyone else.
college xc runner wrote:
I posted several things wrong with it a few posts back - but you don't seem capable of anything but sarcastic rejoinders from left field. Get off your high horse please.
One guy who is butthurt.
Okay then.......... wrote:
wtfunny wrote:Still waiting for someone here, anyone, to point out any real injury or damage this kid caused anyone else.
college xc runner wrote:
I posted several things wrong with it a few posts back - but you don't seem capable of anything but sarcastic rejoinders from left field. Get off your high horse please.
One guy who is butthurt.
LOL
wtfunny wrote:
caller outer wrote:I would say that the amount of backlash seen in just the sample size of the LRC forum is enough evidence that it led to negative feelings about the team and school he represented.
An anonymous forum, none of whom have said anything negative about the team or the school he represented. Uhhmmm, sure.
Patently false - there have been criticisms of the coach. If you can't see the criticisms of the individual as criticisms of the program, then that is your own blindness.
caller outer wrote:
Why would it depend on the program?
Because not all programs have the same athletes, the same history, the same goals and purposes, and on and on. Just as not all races are the same.
Watch this
https://youtu.be/o-urnlaJpOA?t=31sI suppose you think he should also have been punished for disrespecting his competitors, his team, his coach and the world?[/quote]
Some people showboat when they win competitions, in any type of endeavor, since the beginning of time. That is not what is being discussed in this thread.
wtfunny wrote:
college xc runner wrote:I know exactly what it means and it definitely applies to you and how much better you think you are at enjoying life than we.
I didn't say, or suggest, anything of the kind. I know nothing about you; certainly not enough to cast aspersions on whether you enjoy life, or to what degree.
Yes you did exactly that - sarcastically "must be fun to hang out with."
wtfunny wrote:
Much like, say, how much you know about this kid; and yet you feel confident enough to cast aspersions about his character.
I've seen enough yes.
wtfunny wrote:
Doing them a disservice IS harming them. Putting it in quotation marks doesn't make it any less valid.You didn't say what disservice was done to them, nor did you say what that even means.
I laid it out very clearly. Everything you do affects your team culture - if you have 15 guys working in the same direction, you'll all be better off for it. If you have a guy voluntarily throwing away his race, and that behavior is tolerated (if not encouraged as you suggest), that mediocrity can easily spread to the rest of the team.
This kid could have set a good example for some of the younger or slower kids (who are more motivated by their peers than any coach anyway)... he could have run a good race and pushed his teammates along, or pushed his competitors to get the best out of themselves, or given them an honest race. Instead he chose to run out in front of them like a moron for the attention.
Explain how many schools can't afford cross country or have to limit their teams because of entry fees or gas money. Now imagine that some of that money, however little, was wasted on a kid who didn't want to be there - he cared more about Facebook likes than racing. You would think he could show some respect.
You have no idea whether ANY of ^this^ applies to the situation or not. You don't know whether he wanted to be there. What he cared/s about and to what degree. How much respect he shows his peers, his coaches, or anyone else involved in the sport.
[/quote]
He wanted to be there to take a selfie. He didn't want to be there to race. If he did he wouldn't be carrying a phone, running too fast at the start, and posing for a selfie. That is as plain as day.
wtfunny wrote:
Still waiting for someone here, anyone, to point out any real injury or damage this kid caused anyone else.
He finished in the bottom third of the field after sprinting the beginning of the race to take a selfie. You understand how XC scoring works, right? So presumably you understand how this guy sacrificing his finishing place for a stupid stunt harmed his teammates.
The point of a competition is to compete. It's fine if a kid doesn't want to compete, but such a kid should not show up at a competition. There was probably a color run on the same weekend that he could have entered instead if he just wanted to screw around.
[/quote]
Because not all programs have the same athletes, the same history, the same goals and purposes, and on and on. Just as not all races are the same.
Watch this
https://youtu.be/o-urnlaJpOA?t=31s
I suppose you think he should also have been punished for disrespecting his competitors, his team, his coach and the world?[/quote]
Just wondering, you acknowledge that not all programs are the same, right? Would the coach be unreasonable to discipline the athlete If this happened on a program that considers itself a serious program that contends for state titles year in and year out (like Woodlands in Texas or Christian Brothers Academy in NJ)?
I am curious if you think an act like this is harmless no matter what or if certain contexts would warrant some discussion between the athlete and the coaching staff.
Immediate dismissal from the team and a minimum 2 week suspension from school. Loss of phone privileges for no less than 6 months. If reckless behavior like this goes unpunished, it could lead to an epidemic of uncontrollable runners creating a hostile and abusive environment.
Which posts criticized his coach? And what on earth for?
Your 2nd sentence is simply ridiculous.
caller outer wrote:
Some people showboat when they win competitions, in any type of endeavor, since the beginning of time. That is not what is being discussed in this thread.
Surely it's equally disrespectful on its face, and given the scenario (an adult, a sponsored pro, against the greatest athletes in the world, representing his/their countries, etc, etc), the seriousness is only amplified? You won't stand for a school kid disrespecting his team, yet a grown man representing his country you give leeway?
college xc runner wrote:
Yes you did exactly that - sarcastically "must be fun to hang out with."
very sarcastically .. and clearly tongue in cheek. Untie your panties.
I've seen enough yes.
You know literally nothing about this child.
I laid it out very clearly. Everything you do affects your team culture - if you have 15 guys working in the same direction, you'll all be better off for it. If you have a guy voluntarily throwing away his race, and that behavior is tolerated (if not encouraged as you suggest), that mediocrity can easily spread to the rest of the team.
Maybe, just maybe, it's a team of kids who enjoy themselves and don't their sport as seriously as you do. there's nothing wrong with that, whatsoever.
This kid could have set a good example for some of the younger or slower kids (who are more motivated by their peers than any coach anyway)... he could have run a good race and pushed his teammates along, or pushed his competitors to get the best out of themselves, or given them an honest race. Instead he chose to run out in front of them like a moron for the attention.
And somehow it falls on you to pass judgement on all this; without knowing the first thing about his team or how this actually affected any of them at all?
He wanted to be there to take a selfie. He didn't want to be there to race. If he did he wouldn't be carrying a phone, running too fast at the start, and posing for a selfie. That is as plain as day.
Maybe he didn't want to be there at all. Maybe he had the time of his life. Maybe this experience changed his attitude towards running and made him enjoy it all the more. Maybe it turned him off running completely.
The kid took a picture of himself running in front of his buddies. Sure, he was likely showing off, and being a clown. He didn't hurt anyone, far as we know, and he didn't upset anyone other than few anonymous tightwads on LRC. I'd suggest he not let that bother him too much.
Slopenguinrunner wrote:
Just wondering, you acknowledge that not all programs are the same, right? Would the coach be unreasonable to discipline the athlete If this happened on a program that considers itself a serious program that contends for state titles year in and year out (like Woodlands in Texas or Christian Brothers Academy in NJ)?
That would be up to the coach, and depend on many more factors than you've outlined here, don't you think?
I am curious if you think an act like this is harmless no matter what or if certain contexts would warrant some discussion between the athlete and the coaching staff.
My answer above to this same question was 'absolutely'. In fact, even in this situation, with what little info we have on it, 'some discussion' is probably a good thing. But let's not pretend it's a bigger deal than it was .. unless you know a lot more about this situation than has been pointed out here.