Which was more impressive Killians Hardrock CR or Emma Coburn's AR

The question I have is when will we see Killian at Mt Washington?

For the immature track guys I have an easy test you can do to see if you would have any chance against the top mountain runners. (If you can't get to Boulder)

Go to your local fitness center (or YMCA if you want to be a Macho Man) and get on the treadmill. Set the incline at 12% and start running. All you have to do is run a short 7.6 miles and then tell us how quickly you did it.

We'll be waiting to hear your time. I would suggest starting the pace really slow in the beginning like 7 minutes a mile.

Hopes and dreams fulfilled wrote:

The question I have is when will we see Killian at Mt Washington?

If Mt Washington is on a road, he isn't interested.

itsbeensaid wrote:

Hopes and dreams fulfilled wrote:

The question I have is when will we see Killian at Mt Washington?

If Mt Washington is on a road, he isn't interested.

it is, but it's like 4200 vert in 7.something miles.

7:00/mi is too fast. I ran 63' at Mount Washington and never saw a 7' mile except for the start.

Captain Oblivious wrote:

If Emma did Hardrock would they put smaller rocks out there for her to run over?

Are there rocks on a track?

S. Canaday wrote:

But on the other hand if you're a speedy track guy please come to Boulder and try to "run" up Mt. Sanitas from the very bottom to the summit in 14min (Killian's time) and see how you fair....(hint: it's a fairly technical trail).

Unfortunately, I doubt most, if any, of the critics of Killian and Hardrock are "speedy" at any distance on any surface. It would be great to see the critics post their PR's and names. I'm guessing most have never done sh*t on the track or road, but due to small penis syndrome they need to bash others.

I was a "track" guy (sub 14:30, sub 29:30) and have never run an ultra, but have nothing but respect for Killian's performance. I'm not sure why so many "mainstream" runners are so critical of the ultra scene. I've been fortunate to be around both for decades and I really don't see the difference. Covering extreme terrain, even if it includes hiking, is incredibly impressive.

To the poster that wrote that Ms. Coburn could beat Killian if she had a year to train for a 100 miler… are you really that ignorant?

I don't know which performance was more impressive, but I think many are underestimating how quickly Killian was moving over very difficult terrain.

what's harder: watching 24 hours straight of televangelists or walking an ultra in 24 hours?

Mt. Washington ...good example. We did have Marco De Gasperi come run the race in 2012. He finished in 1:01:38 there for 5th place. He is usually pretty close to Killian (may even be a better climber on the more runnable mountain courses).

But people consider it a road race. (I treat Mt. WA like a proper mountain though and it's a good climb!).

doesn't compute wrote:

Captain Oblivious wrote:

If Emma did Hardrock would they put smaller rocks out there for her to run over?

Are there rocks on a track?

No, but they put smaller fences up for Emma on the track.

If the two raced in a steeple, could Emma get over the three foot barriers that men have to go over?

Jofl wrote:

7:00/mi is too fast. I ran 63' at Mount Washington and never saw a 7' mile except for the start.

It shouldn't be for those "really fast" track guys posting here.

How about if the race? Emma goes over the barriers, and kilian doesn't have any barriers. Does she lap him?

Coburn was 12" slower than the WR. It's a decent national record, but nothing to write home about.

Captain Oblivious wrote:

I guess you guys forgot that the women run over lower barriers?

Who forgot that? Obviously what is meant is that Kilian Jornet runs with the men's barriers in a time trial situation with a pacer through 1k, and then compare his time to Emma's. I also think he would lose, badly. He probably loses 28 seconds to emma over the barriers, meaning he'd have to run a flat 3k in around 8:00 to have a shot.

RunTiger wrote:

The simple fact is that there are 14 year old girls who would beat this guy in a mile race.

He's 5'6", 125 pounds, and has a VO2 max of 92. I remember an interview in which he talked about an 'easy' 20 mile road run on hills in San Fran at sub-6 pace as part of his taper for Western States. If he trained specifically for a couple months, dude would run 2:10 to low-2:teens for 26.2. If he focused his career on marathon, he'd probably be the best white guy out there. I'm not sure what his mile time would be, but I'd be surprised if he wasn't under 4:10 right now without ever doing speedwork. You have no idea how insanely fit this guy is.

But, as for which is more impressive, I'd go with Emma. She's pretty close to the maximum physical ability for women at this point. Kilian destroyed everyone else, but it seems pretty apparent that he could run at least an hour faster if he needed to, so he's farther off of maximum physical ability for men on that course.

Collin,I'll see you at speedgoat in a couple days and we can argue about this in person.I'm sorry, but in my experience (both from running road marathons at the national class level and from racing Killian), I think there is no way he would run even close to 2:10 in the marathon. Why? Running Economy and mechanics on flat surfaces. Super fit, super high Vo2max and great on rocks/steep slopes but the flat speed is not there because of that very strength that he has in the mountains. Another example is Anton Krupicka (who very well could beat me on a course like Speedgoat) and who many people think could challenge Killian's new Hardrock CR. He's not cracking 15:30 for 5km anytime soon...but he's super fit in the mountains and good on rocky steps up and down 20% grade...It's the same reason you see legit, sub 14 guys (i.e. Max King and Ryan Bak, etc.) not even come close to winning Mt. Washington. Running Economy and efficient mechanics change from flat to hills and vice versa.

Collin wrote:

RunTiger wrote:

The simple fact is that there are 14 year old girls who would beat this guy in a mile race.

He's 5'6", 125 pounds, and has a VO2 max of 92. I remember an interview in which he talked about an 'easy' 20 mile road run on hills in San Fran at sub-6 pace as part of his taper for Western States. If he trained specifically for a couple months, dude would run 2:10 to low-2:teens for 26.2. If he focused his career on marathon, he'd probably be the best white guy out there. I'm not sure what his mile time would be, but I'd be surprised if he wasn't under 4:10 right now without ever doing speedwork. You have no idea how insanely fit this guy is.

I'm looking at his picture from this article and it's evident he's developed upper body strength one doesn't need for a flat marathon. So his 92 VO2 is currently geared toward some component of weight and muscle mass which is actually penalizing him for flat running. I'd think that if he were to shift training and technique toward the goal of a fast marathon he could definitely approach 2:10.

Running economy and mechanics can be trained for and developed.

http://www.climbing.com/news/kilian-jornet-shatters-matterhorn-speed-record/

envirapod guy wrote:

Captain Oblivious wrote:

I guess you guys forgot that the women run over lower barriers?

Who forgot that? Obviously what is meant is that Kilian Jornet runs with the men's barriers in a time trial situation with a pacer through 1k, and then compare his time to Emma's. I also think he would lose, badly. He probably loses 28 seconds to emma over the barriers, meaning he'd have to run a flat 3k in around 8:00 to have a shot.

Everyone. When people compete against each other the situation should be identical.

What could Emma run in a real steeplechase? She would be way slower and probably hitting the hurdles before halfway.

simon peter wrote:

I've never heard of Hardrock.

I have heard of the Steeplechase.

You've heard of steeplechase because anyone can do it.

Also, Hardrock goes 100 miles THROUGH lightning storms. Track meets get cancelled if there is a storm WITHIN 100 miles.

Third place male and his pacer at Hardrock got struck by lightning at 14,000ft, by the way. Try asking a track runner to do ANYTHING at 14,000ft.