I feel like I've read these exact discussions before.
Oh right, it was in every Jim Ryun thread on this message board over the last several years.
I feel like I've read these exact discussions before.
Oh right, it was in every Jim Ryun thread on this message board over the last several years.
logician wrote:
I feel like I've read these exact discussions before.
Oh right, it was in every Jim Ryun thread on this message board over the last several years.
Yeah, and most of them started by Ventolin. He likes to repeat the same exaggeration and fantasies on a near weekly basis.
Peer Mediator wrote:
logician wrote:I feel like I've read these exact discussions before.
Oh right, it was in every Jim Ryun thread on this message board over the last several years.
Yeah, and most of them started by Ventolin. He likes to repeat the same exaggeration and fantasies on a near weekly basis.
woooosh
Noble Kane wrote:Your anti Coe stance in almost every response to certain posters is so obvious and highly amusing
utter drivel
i give unbiased opinions on all guys
It makes you look biased and desperate and does nothing to make Ryun look better
nonsense
Ryun's 11.6/36.5 in a 3'38 doesn't need anyone comments to look better
quoting nonsense stats like coe's 24+ in 1'47 is utter nonsense stat
kip probably went 24+ in a 1'42.7 !!!
it's you with nonsense stats
You seem to be ignorant to the fact that not all races come down to who has the fastest 300m. There are different tactics
it is you without a clue
as long as no outrageous early laps, it comes down to basics in slow 1500s
final time & the finish
Ryun's 36.5 in a 3'38 on dirt crushes coe's 38.7 in a slower 3'38 on synthetic
It's clear that in 1980 Straub went from 700 out and gradually increased the pace. Why would Coe, with the best finishing speed make a burst 300 out?
because he hadn't a clue what straub had left
only a guy with no confidence woud wait until last 100 when straub's efforts caught up with him
he'd already got whupped in 800 where his "best" finishing speed coudn't get him gold, so anyone with a clue watching the 1500 expected him to go from 300 or 400 out
He carried out the best tactic by running all out in last 100
no
any grown up watching race expected coe to go at 300 or 400 but he didn't
To run a 12.1 in an Olympic final not a one off match against Germany with a dawdling 3rd lap, is pretty amazing
no
it was a 12.2 & 12.2 finish is far from amazing when Ryun averaged better than that for 3 times the distance in a faster time on dirt !!!
does this fact not register in your peabrain ???
Norpoth and Boldo were not in the same league as Ovett or the doped up East German
what part of your numbskull can't comprehend straub, a nobody, beat ovett, the 800 champ in effectively a 800 race
straub a guy with no 800pb of any significance whupped ovett, the 800 champ in an effective 800
straub never ever broke 1'46 in his life !!!
if that doesn't tell you how poor ovett ran, obviously you have less clue than imagineable
A better comparison of the 2 would be their Olympic performances. Did Ryun run a 12.1 last 100 in any of the 3 Olympics he competed in?
drivel
nor did coe
he ran 12.2
as for Ryun's olympic record, only a complete fool coud ask that :
in '64 he was 17y !!!
he went for nothing but experience
in '68 he was past his peak but still came 2nd & beat the non-african world by over 1s
in '72 after having retired for 1y in that cycle, he came as perhaps favourite but tripped by some chump in heats
Did he win 2 gold medals at the end of many races?
no he didn't win 2 boycott games golds
he ran in games with everyone there
Did Ryun even attempt to run both the half mile and 1500 in the Olympics? If not, why not?
utterly clueless
he was past his peak in '68 & '72 & just missed out in trials
he didn't have luxury of coe getting discetionary slot on the team as in '84 over 1500
Ryun wasn't picked for either '68 or '72 800 despite being wr holder
he was past his peak & misjudged his 800s
No middle distance runner that has ever lived or will ever live could match Lord Coe in a race over any distance. Not one!
No one cares about Jim Ryun being poorly trained and having such terrible luck. I don't care about his potential.
I don't care about Hicham El Guerrouj tripping, or being nudged out by some doped Kenyan in 2000. It doesn't matter. Coe would have run the last 100 meters of that race in 10.8 and left the sand eater and jungle savages in the dust.
ventolin^3 wrote:
i give unbiased opinions on all guys
utter drivel
what part of your numbskull can't comprehend that you are totally biased?
ventolin^3 wrote:
only a guy with no confidence woud wait until last 100 when straub's efforts caught up with him
nonsense
a guy with ultimate confidence would not have a problem waiting for the last 100m
Peer Mediator wrote:Coe was an old man of 33 when he faced Bile
& bile was nowhere like his '87 form where he destroyed cram with ~ 1'46 finish in a 3'36 !
He would have run at least 37.8 for the last 300 if Bile hadn't impeded him
& a past his peak bile ran 37.6 with whole last bend run wide & with his feet on lane 2 line at time
Clear to all commentators and analysts at the time that Bile encroached into Coe before he was past him
nonsense
vid shows bile was past him & coe tried to come thru the gap & clashed elbows
Coe had the inside lane and it was Bile who was at fault. At that speed this would not only have chopped his stride but also broken his rhythm and form. Coe did well after that to hold on to second
no
bile was middle/outter lane 1 at the time
coe had plenty of gap to go thru but went wide, clashing ebows
Your nonsense about 800 times just highlights your persistent contradictions
utter drivel
When Coe ran no faster than a 1:44 for 800 in 81 after his world record, you said that was evidence he couldn't run faster than 1:41.7
fool
that is evidence
he had 8 more goes in '81 & coudn't crack 1'45 in a pure 800 !!!
BUT, when Bile runs a pb of 1:43.6, you suggest he could have run faster even though he didn't. Quite moronic conclusions
i see your peabrain can't think at all
coe went 1'43.3 that year
bile went 1'43.6 & beat him in a sprint over last 300 & 400 as behind at bell in a slowish race
to anyone with a clue, that woud indicate bile had better 800 speed at the time than coe, so 1'43.6 was not representative of his 800 ability in '89
& bile ran 3'30.5 in '89
he looked in 3'27/3'28 shape when crushing cram
he wouda been faster in '87 than '89 for 800 as he ran 800s of 1500 ability
bile looked in something like 1'42-mid shape in '87
he lost his 2 biggest 800s that year to the awesome billy, who looked in 1'42-flat shape at worst that year, but saved his peak for rome
both bile & billy had peak career form in rome
Fact was Coe ran a 1:43.3 in 89 and was faster than Bile's 1:43.6
& coe got hammered in a sprint in a slow race
therefore bile had better speed in '89 than coe & therefore almost certain a quicker 800 runner than coe back then
They were closely matched, and it was close in the 1500. Had it been 81 or 84 or even 86, Coe would have won, barring any more fouls
utter drivel
bile of '87wc looked in 3'27/3'28 shape
coe was never in that shape
Bile ran that last curve in 12.1, worth more like 11.8/11.9 on the rails, which is equally impressive in a 3:35 major race than a 11.8 straight in a 3:38
no
it doesn't compare to a 11.6 in a 3'38 on dirt & the dusseldorf race was biggest 1500 race of that year
I have Kipketer's Monaco race and his last 200 on the rails was indeed 24.7. What this has to do with Ryun or Coe I don't know
because it makes coes 24+ in a 1'47 look pathetic
only a fool coud post an embarassing 24+ in a 1'47 when kip ran 24+ in a 1'42.7 !!!
And yes that is an impressive last 200m kick in a fast 800
impressive ???
only a fool coud call it just impressive
it is best damn kick in an actual 800ever
no one has ever kicked 24+ in a sub-1'43
It isn't comparable to a last 100m kick of 11.3 in a tactical 1:47 race
utter nonsense
11.3 in a 1'47 is a nonense stat as i doubt less than 10% of all 800s have had the last 100 clocked
guys like caballo or everett wouda destroyed an 11.3 in a 1'47 at their peak
but no one in their right mind went looking for 100m splits in slow 800s except a delusional
They are just 2 completely different scenarios
nonsense
most 800s have their last 200 recorded
few 800s have their last 100 recorded
a 24+ in a 1'42.7 is on a different planet from an 11.3 in a 1'47
Coe did run a 24.8 last 200 in winning the Europeans in 86, in which he ran about 809m, and about 2m wide on the last bend alone
& drafted to 700m always trying to shadow cram
That works out as the equivalent to a last 200 of 24.5 in a 1:43.3 race
no
with drafting, works out more like a 24.5 in a 1'43.9
That is comparable to Kipketer's 24.7 in a 1:42.7
utter drivel
it's not on same planet as kip
especially when the former was after rounds
complete utter drivel
why on earth can't your peabrain not give full facts ???
kip ran 1'42.77 with 52.0/50.7 just 3/7 after an absolutely astonishing 1'41.2wr off suicidal 23.0/48.3 !!!
that 3/7 gap is same as rounds, moreso that he blasted the 1st race took an airplane & then ran another race 3/7 later
his legs musta been still like jelly in monaco but he still went 52.0/50.7 !!!
coe's rounds don't compare
Serious question, ventolin^3: are you or were you ever a runner?
It doesn't change my opinion of you but it would definitely help me understand your views.
One of the best coaches I know was never a runner and yet he loves the sport and studies it - and he is able to put his passion and knowledge together to coach well.
How would he find the time to run? His madness is a full time thing.
ventolin^3 wrote:
kip ran 1'42.77 with 52.0/50.7 just 3/7 after an absolutely astonishing 1'41.2wr off suicidal 23.0/48.3 !!!
that 3/7 gap is same as rounds, moreso that he blasted the 1st race took an airplane & then ran another race 3/7 later
Another serious question ... Ventolin^3, why don't you write "3 days" instead of "3/7", or "1 week" instead of 1/52"? It's not as if you you're pressed for time, given how long your posts are. If you just stopped calling people "morons" and "peabrains", and dropped the ridiculous hyperbole like "suicidal", "quagmire" etc, you wouldn't need to use abbreviations like "3/52", etc to gain a few milliseconds here and there.
Marty McFly wrote:
ol horrible legs wrote:Wait wait wait - Ventolin is KENYAN??
Welcome to yesterdays news.
It would explain why his written English is so terrible.
SMJO wrote:
How would he find the time to run? His madness is a full time thing.
He and Deano. Madmen. In the worst sense.
Peer Mediator wrote:Yeah, and most of them started by Ventolin. He likes to repeat the same exaggeration and fantasies on a near weekly basis.
moron
we just seen part of Ryun's incredible finish on youtube
what on earth can't your peabrain understand about 11.6/36.5 in a 3'38.2 on dirt ???
King Arthur wrote:a guy with ultimate confidence would not have a problem waiting for the last 100m
it appears an idiot can occasionally stumble onto gold
how come hicham tried every other tactic in his life other than than last 100 kick ???
after all, the guy kicked end his 3'26.00 a
53.2 !!!
Peer Mediator wrote:
If he can look at the time on the clock and work out Ryun's last 90m , then we can figure out his last 100m
I timed both versions of the race from this mark which probably is the 90m mark.
In the YouTube version it's little bit difficult, because of the camera angle at the finish (and also the cut almost directly when he reaches the 90m mark). Comparing with the other one it's seems to be something like 11,3s.
In the other one it's around 11,5 - something like 12,8 for the last 100m.
So his last 300m could be something like: 11,6 - 12,1 - 12,8 (but could also 11,8 - 11,9 - 12,8 or 11,8 - 12,0 - 12,8 or...).
But I really can't conclude the first 100m (I considered even the start of the 200m race little bit later, bit it's difficult). Still, I think this finish of Ryun is unique and no other 1500m race which I have seen so far is comparable in quality to this one. (I really can't see how Aouita should have managed this reported 36,14 in Grossetto, but so I have thought about Ryun...).
But I also want to say that your acting regarding Coe Peer is very similar to what Deano always is doing, trying to find any possible way to lift up Coe's performances and capabilities and simultaneously reduce performances of all other runners which seem to have performances close to or better than Coe's.
A point which illustrates this very good in my opinion is your quote of the "old man" Coe at the World Cup in '89. He was not 33, he was 32 (yes, 4 weeks short of 33 is called 32). And yes, this really is not very important, but it just illustrates my point very good.
Your opinion is fixed before, regardless of the exact subject: you try to find arguments for Coe and against any opponent. For sure both of you are free to do what you like, but it just didn't occur(?) very proud.
Not to speak at all about long "conversations" with the oldman^3, which where to be proved always meaningless for at least 100 times in this forum (not to talk at all, that I don't think any person is happy to be called by bad names constantly).
Both of you seem to be respectful persons and I don't want to attack you at all, but it's just getting boring when the opinion is fixed before (even to the extent that one of you just turns over some pure facts to the complete opposite when it's favouring Coe).
This single race now has taken enough time I would say and I don't think I will "study" it again (Jim Ryun is not even one of my favoured runners).
For sure I talked about the quality of the finish of Ryun's race (not the race at all). For sure he would have had no chance against a Hicham El Guerrouj in world record form with some rabbits and probably also some other runners.
said88 wrote:
This single race now has taken enough time I would say and I don't think I will "study" it again (Jim Ryun is not even one of my favoured runners).
Ventolin is either going to go off the deep end if you don't repeatedly describe this race ad nauseum or he's going to write a fawning, obsequious post like he did when drewr posted.
Or both.
said88 wrote:For sure I talked about the quality of the finish of Ryun's race (not the race at all). For sure he would have had no chance against a Hicham El Guerrouj in world record form with some rabbits and probably also some other runners.
interesting
bernie ran him close in brussels with 3'26-low
then you forget to consider noah in reiti 1k
he'd run a 3'29.1 in brussels, got on planes & had to take at least 2 planes total to get to rieti to race in
~ 40 hours
totally unrested, 2 plane journeys + car to get to rieti
in race, he starts out wide, possibly in lane 2 at points, knocking off at least 0.4s off his 2'11.96
2'11.5+ there aleady
he actually split an outrageous 49.8+ with his ~ 3m extra run there
so
49.4+
for lane 1 which he couda expected but didn't get
start in a 1k off jet-lagged legs with 3'29.1 win 40 hours ago
it's a total miracle he hung on for 2'11.96 !!!
fully rested, with perfect race of either 800/1500 that day, he shoud been looking at
1'41-low/mid / 3'25-mid
i only mention this because noah's circumstances/race indicate actual greatest ever combined 800/1500 synthetic track guy & woud have 1500wr today if he'd skipped brussels & target rieti instead & got 2'31 to bell or if he'd run 800 that day he wouda been into 1'41-low/mid but shy of kip's wr, but not kip level talent who had to be 1'40-mid in his suicidal 23.0/48.3 zurich 1'41.24
do you consider noah in same category as Ryun talent ?
webbmaster is back wrote:
ISBN wrote:No different to what Snell, Coe, Ovett, Aouita, Morceli have done in different paced races at different points over the last lap. They all threw down 100 m bursts in about 12 secs flat.
None of those runners did anything close to what Ryun did in this race. Let alone on a dirt track.
You are right they all won gold
The video cuts about 100m out so that 36.5 time is way off
a "genius" arrives
your peabrain worked out how mo's 12.9 on superstars -> 50.8+ split -> 3'28.8 ?!