It's easy for guys in our age group-- I'll turn 60 in two weeks-- to forget particular details, but you guys are absolutely correct, even if we get a detail or two wrong on specifics. The guy had a WR 27:13 and never medaled in the Olys, WC, or even the Euro Champs, if memory serves. He once ran off the track and said he had to go to the bathroom mid-race. The word "choke" is thrown around very casually these days, but in Mamede's case.... draw your own conclusions.
Great question. This includes athletes who always get sick just before the big races or who are constantly injured and don't start or who constantly have bad luck. Marathoners mostly.
Amy Hastings
Ryan Hall
Davilla
Uceny
plagued guy wrote:
Joe Falcon
Yep. Falcon should have been an Olympic medalist in either 1500 or 5000. He was the greatest talent of his era among Americans. But he had a long list of disaster in high pressure races.
All can't possibly been attributed to bad luck, but he was only about 120 pounds and the 1989 NCAA 1500 and 1992 Oly Trials 1500 (both as a heavy favorite) he got knocked down hard and no one can fall and recover and regroup at that distance.
But he also tripped and fell at the NCAA XC champs when he was challenged late by Ramirez. Apparently he tripped on a sprinkler.
The Oslo 3:49 mile and the 1989 DMR at Penn he came through and those were his greatest races and displayed that he was a tough competitor. As a fan I look at him and wonder what could have been.
The dude had wheels and a gear at the end of a distance race I've never seen other than the Ethiopians.
If he had run the 5000 in 1992 instead of the 1500 I have no doubt the way that race played out he would have won a medal.
Definitely sub 13 potential and medal type of finish.
John O'Donnell wrote:
It's easy for guys in our age group-- I'll turn 60 in two weeks-- to forget particular details, but you guys are absolutely correct, even if we get a detail or two wrong on specifics. The guy had a WR 27:13 and never medaled in the Olys, WC, or even the Euro Champs, if memory serves. He once ran off the track and said he had to go to the bathroom mid-race. The word "choke" is thrown around very casually these days, but in Mamede's case.... draw your own conclusions.
Mamede apparently admitted he couldn't deal with the pressure when he ran of the track as the WR holder early on at the 1984 Olympics and pointed repeatedly to his head.
The same Olympics injured Dave Moorcroft who had the 5000 WR made the final with a painful injury and hobbled enough to barely not get lapped in a 13:05 race. Maybe that was less pressure for him but he sucked it up and finished in 14:10.
Mamede set a WR a couple months before and couldn't handle the pressure and quit. At least Suzy Hamilton went for it and Steve Scott tried to win but a 10,000 is a long time to think. All three choked.
Jim Ryun compared to those three ran the second fastest 1500 at altitude and never quit in Mexico City. When you consider that he was coming back from mono and running against altitude athletes that were plotting together to exploit that edge, Ryun didn't choke and ran one of the greatest races of his life there.
Pretty sure KK got his citizenship 2000, chose to run marathons other than WC trials and OLY trials. He was chasing the money.
2000
London Marathon, third place (2:08:36)
Chicago Marathon, winner in a new American record (2:07:01)
2002
London Marathon, winner in world record time (2:05:38)
Chicago Marathon, winner (2:05:56), becoming the first man in history to break 2:06 twice in one year
Ranked as the number #1 marathoner in the world by Track & Field News and their American Athlete of the Year.
2004
Chicago Marathon, fifth place (2:08:44)
2006
London Marathon, 4th place (2:07:04), coming back from a long period of injury.
_____________________________________________
During this 6 year period KK was a US citizen but did not represent the US in Oly or WC competetion. Seems he chose to make $. He could have also made the 10k team.
He does not belong on this list
It's easy to label an athlete a choker, but in most cases I think it's unfair. Often an athlete has literally one or two shots at the Olympics, and it just happens that they were injured, sick, etc at the wrong time. But then they are forever stuck with the "choker" label, like it was all their doing.
Take Paula Radcliffe, for example. She had one bad Olympics where she performed poorly in the heat. Fine, say she "choked". The next Olympics she was injured, barely trained, ran anyway with basically no chance of doing anything, and still got labelled a choker. But what about the World Championships gold? Did she not perform under pressure there? Was there no pressure on her to perform in her various London, Chicago, New York, etc marathon victories? Of course there was. The obvious conclusion is that she was better suited to cool weather, fast course marathons than to the typically warm championship races. That doesn't make her a choker. It's more a question of physiology.
Or Alan Webb. The excitement surrounding his participation as a high schooler in the Prefontaine mile was huge. The pressure must have been Olympic-like. Yet he came through with one of the best races ever. His US championship victories seemed pretty dramatic to me.
The reality is obvious: some runners are physically better suited to fast, one-off races. Other runners are better suited to the grinding of multiple rounds, and tactical finals. That doesn't necessarily make the former group "chokers".
If you want to talk about high school, I believe that Andres Arroyo fits this thread nicely. The guy has a 14:59 for 5k, 8:51 for 3200m, 4:04 for 1600m, and an insane 1:47 for 800m. Despite his amazing credentials, he's never gotten out of Foot Locker South Regionals, even losing to multiple Floridians, and was a non-factor in the Dream Mile in New York.
Choking personified:
Asafa Powell
Gamera wrote:
It's easy to label an athlete a choker, but in most cases I think it's unfair. Often an athlete has literally one or two shots at the Olympics, and it just happens that they were injured, sick, etc at the wrong time. But then they are forever stuck with the "choker" label, like it was all their doing.
Take Paula Radcliffe, for example. She had one bad Olympics where she performed poorly in the heat. Fine, say she "choked". The next Olympics she was injured, barely trained, ran anyway with basically no chance of doing anything, and still got labelled a choker. But what about the World Championships gold? Did she not perform under pressure there? Was there no pressure on her to perform in her various London, Chicago, New York, etc marathon victories? Of course there was. The obvious conclusion is that she was better suited to cool weather, fast course marathons than to the typically warm championship races. That doesn't make her a choker. It's more a question of physiology.
I wouldn't call it a choke, but it is their job to stay injury free. If they overtrain and become injured, it is their own fault. If their form encourages injury, it is their fault. Same goes for the runners who are always get sick just before the big race. There are runners out there who always DNS because of this. ;They just don't have the diet, stress management, etc.. to stay healthy. Sure once in a while everyone gets sick. I'm talking about the ones who get sick all the time when it counts.
It's not choking, but they can't perform when it counts. It's their job to peak at key events (Olympics/world champs) and especially stay injury free.
El Geroooj. Take away the dope from 2004, and that guy would have really not lived up to his potential...Olympic choke artist
Prefontaine against the Europeans
I think Suzy prooved she can perform when it counts, at least in Vegas
Zersenay Tadese in marathon
the US in the 80 Summer Olympics
Has anyone mentioned Leroy Burrell ?
Sydney Maree. 3.29 guy and no Olympic/world medals
Yes, Asafa Powell has to "win" this.
He underperformed in 7 of 8 championship years when you compare his world list place to his championship place for each year.
He has broken or tied the world record 3 times.
Ran sub 9.80 8 times
Ran sub 9.90 34 times
Ran sub 10.00 80 times, including 15 times in one year
He was had either the 1st or 2nd fastest time in the world 5 different years (3 years at #1).
He has competed in 8 championship seasons.
He was never finished higher than Bronze.
It's OK that a lot of those losses were to Gay and Bolt but there were usually other finishers between Powell and them as well.
Billy Mills! He did poorly in most of his major races. Though this was likely to to the fact that he struggled with low blood sugar and he did not realize it until late in his career. But he won the only one that really mattered.