Sophomore running 100 MPW

Low mileage when you're younger does two things. First, you can be more intense with your workouts. You're younger, your body can recover much more quickly than someone who is older. Secondly, let's say you run 100 mpw for the rest of high school and run 15 flat for a 5k. That's fantastic for a high schooler. You should be very proud of that accomplishment. You get recruited to a great college. And now you start training with them. You've already run 100 mpw for three years. Where do you plan on going from there? 110? 120? What I'm trying to say is that when you start at a young age with some much volume, it doesn't allow you to reap the benefits of 100 mile weeks when you're older because your body will be used to it, and most likely worn down from it. I don't think 100 miles a week is necessary for a sub 30 10k. I think 75-85 is still more than enough as long as it's quality.

Here's another story for you. A friend of mine who got recruited to a fairly decent D2 program told me his story. When he got recruited from high school he ran 16:30 in high school. For his first three years of college, he thought that running 90+ mpw would get him to a sub 15 5k. He ran about 40-50 in high school. For three years he would not break 16 minutes. He did not take 30 seconds off his 5k PR. Finally his senior year he dropped to 65-75 miles a week all summer and then introduced much more intensity to his workouts including one day a week where he would do 8x150 all out on the track, full recovery. The following winter he ran 14:41 5k on an indoor track.

Just my opinion, but we, as runners are all different. My advice to you is try it, but don't get so committed to it that you get too prideful that you won't change something that may not work.

Okay, here's my theory on the whole running fast in high school thing:

If I don't turn in some fast times young, I won't get into a good school. My dream school is Oregon, but everyone's dream school is Oregon. Obviously I'd like to get faster in college, but I really need to hit some fast times the next three years. My goals for senior year (very ambitious, I know)

3200m-9:00

5000m-15:30

8K-26:00

10K-32:30

Dude just saying dont be afraid to run hard more frequently in your training runs. Google Josh Ryf. Running times just wrote a piece on him. He's a sub 2:20 runner who runs almost all of his runs sub 6:00 pace. I can handle running that way because I've been doing it my entire running career. It works for me because I'm not really built like a runner. Im 155 lbs with huge legs that can take a beating. You're young. Don't be afraid to lower your day to day training pace. Try the way Salazar has his guys run (5k pace plus 1:30). You don't have any team commitments or races to worry about so don't worry about being tired. The aerobic payoff is huge. At this point if I tried to train any differently I would detrain so quickly it wouldn't be funny.

My 2 Cents wrote:

Dude just saying dont be afraid to run hard more frequently in your training runs. Google Josh Ryf. Running times just wrote a piece on him. He's a sub 2:20 runner who runs almost all of his runs sub 6:00 pace. I can handle running that way because I've been doing it my entire running career. It works for me because I'm not really built like a runner. Im 155 lbs with huge legs that can take a beating. You're young. Don't be afraid to lower your day to day training pace. Try the way Salazar has his guys run (5k pace plus 1:30). You don't have any team commitments or races to worry about so don't worry about being tired. The aerobic payoff is huge. At this point if I tried to train any differently I would detrain so quickly it wouldn't be funny.

Rising10Kstar wrote:

Okay, here's my theory on the whole running fast in high school thing:

If I don't turn in some fast times young, I won't get into a good school. My dream school is Oregon, but everyone's dream school is Oregon. Obviously I'd like to get faster in college, but I really need to hit some fast times the next three years. My goals for senior year (very ambitious, I know)

3200m-9:00

5000m-15:30

8K-26:00

10K-32:30

You've completely moved the goalposts. You began this thread talking about 100-mile weeks for a goal time of 30 minutes while a college senior, and now you're talking about goal times while in high school to get into a "good school" (like Oregon). These are utterly different aims.

You simply do not have to run 100-mile weeks to hit the times you've outlined above. There are plenty of kids in high school who are running 15:30s on 50-60 miles a week by calibrating their training to their specific race distances. (Also, why are you even concerned with your 10k time? No college coach really cares about your 10k.)

Here's the thing. You're a kid. You like posting on the internet because it gives your running the sense of purpose and community that it otherwise lacks (since you're not on a team). But running, as we all know, is a lonely endeavor, and you're going to have to get used to that. You can post here all you like and get the attention that kids your age need and feel like this is all so meaningful and manageable, but you still have to run the miles yourself. And once you sign off here and close your browser and put on your shorts and shoes and head out the door, nobody will give a damn. That's hard to take.

But if you really love running--if it literally makes you cry thinking about how much you love running--then see how far you can go by aiming your training towards specific races. That's much harder than simply running lots. You can hit all those times (except possibly the 10k) on 7-8 miles 5x a week and 10-12 miles 2x a week--but that means you're still on the hook for leading an ordinary, non-heroic high school life because you'll have the time and the energy. Track workouts are scary; real life is scary; and I see that your plan allows you to avoid both, which I don't think is coincidental.

I'm all over the place here, I know. Let me sum up. You want to run fast? Train fast. You have to do actual workouts, and you have to tailor those workouts to your goal races and goal times. Don't run miles for the sake of running miles, and don't run miles because you think anyone else will care or be impressed or understand why you get up at 5:30 before school for the first run of your double. And don't do anything stupid or short-sighted with your only youth. You've got a lot of time to get to 30 minutes; there's no need to rush, and there's a lot to see and do on the way.

Those times have very poor relationships with each other. If you running 9 flat you should be looking to run sub 15 and if you can run sub 15, 31:30 is a lot more reasonable of a goal.And your dream school shouldn't be oregon. It should be whatever has a good program in your major.Drawing up schedules like this is fun but stupid. Your body will react how it reacts. If you can only run 60 mpw, that is what you run. If you can handle 120, that is what you run. In another year you can add another 10%. As far as training, I like Al Sals approach of keeping most runs under an hour with only 1 or 2 longer ones a day. Given your training paces, that means a lot more 8 mile runs instead of 10 mile ones. Throw in a bit of intensity (20 mins hard, 100m sprints up hills, 30s all out) and you will develop a decent base.To be a good runner though, you need to find a way to run short races (mile and 2 miles) on a regular basis. There is something about learning how to race and push yourself. You want to do it regularly until you learn how. You can't run 10ks often enough to develop that.

Rising10Kstar wrote:

Okay, here's my theory on the whole running fast in high school thing:

If I don't turn in some fast times young, I won't get into a good school. My dream school is Oregon, but everyone's dream school is Oregon. Obviously I'd like to get faster in college, but I really need to hit some fast times the next three years. My goals for senior year (very ambitious, I know)

3200m-9:00

5000m-15:30

8K-26:00

10K-32:30

TKTKTK wrote:

You've completely moved the goalposts. You began this thread talking about 100-mile weeks for a goal time of 30 minutes while a college senior, and now you're talking about goal times while in high school to get into a "good school" (like Oregon). These are utterly different aims.

Those are just short term benchmarks and times I would think would get me into a good school. I know a guy who ran 15:48 and got into Oregon. Setting a 10K goal in High School is a personal thing. No, Oregon probably doesn't care how fast my 10K PR is, but if I'm close to 32 I'd think in 4 years I could achieve running under 30:00. Yes, Oregon wants guys who can run at least 4:00 in the 1500m and 8:40 in the 3000m.

Yes, I'm well aware no one cares about my running. That's why it's MY running. I came on hear to ask about the effects of high mileage in terms of how fast I can run, not to entertain or inform you. Your post hasn't really contributed to helping me decide whether mileage at a young age is right. All it's told me is you are a fellow lonely dork runner existence, and I respect that. I simply want help with my running, not my life. I plan on spending high school just running and studying. Perhaps in College I'll become more social. In fact, if I become a duck as desired, I'd like to find my wife there.

I would be down to email you to talk about your training rising10star. Its awesome that you have the drive and you remind me of myself. If you are getting in the mileage now those times for high school are good. High school is not when you want to hammer speed anyways so I like mileage. I got into mileage and this is my progression fresh year(22:340road race) soph year 18:24 junior 17:15 senior year hoping for sub 16 but probably low 16s. From soohmore summer to junior summer my mileage went from 20 a week to 70 a week

Post yours, please. I trust you, but if I post mine I might get trolled and called an idiot by those who don't approve of my mileage.

Easy: you don't know me, and I'm not your fellow runner existence blah blah blah blah anything. I'm going to repeat: Mileage obsession will bore you and make you boring without making any appreciable difference in your PRs. You need to run consistently, devise and execute a range of specifically targeted workouts, and develop race strategies though regular competition. And if you couldn't tell from my response what I know about mileage for the sake of mileage you need to more carefully read the things that people take the time to post for you. Thanks.

I've generally wanted to avoid chiming in and just let things play out here, but as the thread has progressed I've seen a lot of my younger self in you and want to help you out.

To compare: I ran 17:58 as a FR in HS, and 17:36 as a SO. I wanted to be good SO bad. Knew all the big in-state DI walk-on and scholarship times, craved being atop podiums, etc. I got a new coach going into JR year, we bumped up into the 75-80 rage. I ran 16:54. Peaked in the early season, ran 18:3X at the end, and hated life.

SR year that guy was out and my best friend's dad hooksed me with some of the best coaching. I peaked at ~60 mpw that year, probably averaged 40 or a bit under and ran 16:05 (on a rough course, ended up top 10 in my state meet). Ran a great (seriously, it was beautiful) track season and snagged a spot on the biggest/best team I could find. Awesome.

Time to cut to the point:

Ran well as a FR, decided to bump things up into the 100+ range going into SO year, ran sh*t, got overtrained, walked into a fatigue disorder, had to quit the team/got kicked off for grades since I was sleeping 18+hrs a day and still dead.

Did that for TWO YEARS. It was horrible, and yet I didn't see the error in how I was doing things. Got smart, took 10 weeks off and lifted heavy/played sports and got back into things my 4th year. Hovered in the 70-80 mpw range on peak weeks, focused on recovery, felt better, got my grades back together, and got back on the team.

I made our NCAA team, cracked 30min (by a LOT) my first attempt at the 10k that spring, and slaughtered by old 5k best.

What was my spring mpw avg? 69.1 (yeah, I keep detailed logs - it's a thing).

What am I trying to say? I was on your level in HS, pulled some of the same redic. training mistakes you're probably about to, and suffered for it. When corrected I knocked out your goal and then about 60+ sec extra by the end. We're on the same ability level, I think, when looking at your times, so think about this and really consider what you may be getting yourself into.

_Dirt, did you drop your mileage during the season or did you keep it? That makes a big difference if you try and keep the mileage all season

When I was training my hardest (not best or smartest) I would drop minimally when in season. Maybe go from 85-105 per week to 65-70 for a week or two, then try and "make up for it" by going back to triple digits for a while.

When I was training (and racing) my best I would work up in the off season to a point where I was cycling 70-75-80 mpw through the bulk of training, then holding in the 70-75 range when getting into the peak 6-8 weeks and having my race weeks be 55-65. It wasn't planned that way (the low race weeks), I was just going by feel on what seemed to be getting me ready to roll on the right day (variance in mpw was closely correlated with race day (sometime between Thursday night and Saturday night), as that would influence my workout, pre race, and recovery/long run day needs.

Yeah it seems like you had nice mileage for a few years but never dropped it for extended times to get good races so when you finally ran less per week your body was ready to race.

I have developed some conclusions. While those of you against it give good reasons why not, those for it give counter points proving to me it's worth doing. I'm just going to continue working hard and listening to my body. I'm going to run about 90-100 with less for races and during base and extended periods without races I'll have an easier week every 3 weeks. For my high school career I'm going to run as fast as I can and after Junior Track I'm going to contact Oregon along with some back-up schools. If anyone's interested in knowing how my high mileage journey goes, I'll post my email. If not, this thread is pretty much done. I'd like to thanks those who contributed. It was pretty cool Rojo commented honestly. Anyways, good luck on your running as well, posters. Go Ducks!

Rising10Kstar wrote:

Rojo, if a guy came to you running 9:00-9:20 in the 3200m off of 100 MPW, would you have any interest? To the people telling me to run easy at 6 flat pace, it would be moronic to do that (I can, but don't have a reason). The body needs time to recover. Go ahead if you want to be a workout warrior. I come to the starting line hungry on race day.

Over the years, I've known a lot of those dudes who hammered on their "easy" days. They all seemed to be injured a lot.

I can promise you, I take my "easy" days easy enough. I generally run about 7:00/mile for the bulk, with some faster miles thrown in to avoid doing nothing but lsd. Most of the time, this comes at the end of a run. There's no point in calling it "easy" if you run hard. "Run fast, not hard"