Is Mo's 3:28 Huge in Your Suspicions of NOP Doping?

nope nope nope wrote:

jono wrote:

And, rekrunner I don't believe in your concept of drugs giving a recovery advantage. It is possible to train harder and recover faster, it's called fitness. I know because in the week leading up to my 1500 best, I was doing phenomenal training up to within 40 hours of the race. I could do a huge workout and recover within 24 hours. Mo Farah has been training this way for many years

This has to be one of the most ridiculous posts I've seen in a while.

K buddy. Armstrong had a sophisticated doping schedule so he could watch movies, not to enable him to train harder by recovering faster than clean riders. That would be ridiculous because it didnt happen to you and afterall you're name is Hicham El Gerrouj. Thanks pal!

What?

A Rose By Any Other wrote:

jono wrote:

This concept so many of you have about so called 'performance enhancing drugs' is just silly.

Why would a distance runner with 50 second 400 speed NOT be able to run 3.28 at age 30

A distance runner with "only" 50 second 400m speed has NEVER been able to run 3:28 at any age. It has never happened. Ever.

Welcome to the world of Mohamed Farah. Watch and learn.

He's run 50 on the last lap of a distance race - surely you don't think that 50 is his top end speed.

jono wrote:

Welcome to the world of Mohamed Farah. Watch and learn.

What a world that must be. One where you have more speed, endurance, power at 30 than you did at 25! Oh, and you run 3:28 and double win and Worlds and the Olympics. It's bizarro world...track style!

he crossed over

he's not the only one

it don't pass the smell test

too much improvement to late ..even if he did up his game

core work blah blah blah

Bernard Lagat ran a 7:29 PR in the 3,000 at age 35 and a 12:53 PR in the 5,000 at age 36. He took the silver medal in the 5,000 in the 2011 WCs and the gold in the 5,000 in the 2012 indoor WCs. He was also a double gold medalist in the 1,500 and 5,000 at the 2007 WCs at age 31. Is he a doper? He sure doesn't run the volume that Mo runs. Farah has never run 7:29, not yet anyway. He has run 12:53, same as Lagat but at a much earlier age, and only a four second drop under Salazar. This doesn't make the 3:28.8 any more suspicious or any less suspicious, but it's food for thought anyway.

Lagat - gold in the 3000 at the 2012 indoor WCs.

weuoiu wrote:

jono wrote:

Welcome to the world of Mohamed Farah. Watch and learn.

What a world that must be. One where you have more speed, endurance, power at 30 than you did at 25! Oh, and you run 3:28 and double win and Worlds and the Olympics. It's bizarro world...track style!

Emil Zatopek won 10k in 1948 Olympics at age 26. Then in 1952, at age 30, he won the 5k, the 10k, and the Marathon at the Olympics at age 30.

Distance runners tend to be at their best, if they stay healthy and motivated, in their late twenties or early thirties.

Farah's signature gift is his quickness at the end of long races. He used that quickness to produce a fast 1500.

A Rose By Any Other wrote:

Sagarin wrote:

You'd think Centrowitz and, particularly, Rupp would've run 3:28 by now...

This argument makes no sense whatsoever. None. Centro actually has accomplished much more, with 2 WC medals at 1500m, than one might have thought an 8:41 high school 2 miler would. Neither Galen Rupp nor Centro looked like they'd ever be close to 3:30 1500m runners when they were in high school. Sure both were very good high school milers, but neither broke 4 minutes, and neither really looked as if the 1500m would be their event. IF they are doping or something similar but technically not, then presumably Mo Farah ran 12:57 without it, a time which Rupp has not matched with it (this ostensible aid). Mo Farah is more talented than Galen or Centro, of that there is no doubt.

Did 4:15 high school prep Steve Scott give any indication that he was going to run an AR 3:47, doped or not? Rupp ran 12:58-high in a race that he didn't peak for and was training through. Any reasonable person would agree with Salazar that he was probably in 12:50 shape then, and many of the Africans he beat at Pre did go on to run 12:46-12:50 a few weeks later in Europe.

My point in all of this, making comparisons to Lagat and what not, is that the 3:28.8 shouldn't be the rallying cry for cheating unless you also think that Lagat was cheating at the 2012 Olympic games (many do, I'm sure). The 3:28.8 in and of itself, while terribly impressive, is merely a data point. In reality, Farah was probably already capable of 26:50 before he joined Salazar and he has only improved his 5,000 PR by four seconds (though, admittedly, he should be able to go faster).

What Salazar has purposely worked on is Mo's finishing speed. So a guy who can blast the last couple of laps of a 5,000 or 10,000 to win, particularly the last lap, is also a guy who is probably capable of a very fast 1,500 under optimal conditions, which is what Farah got. He won't get the same opportunity again.

weuoiu wrote:

jono wrote:

Welcome to the world of Mohamed Farah. Watch and learn.

What a world that must be. One where you have more speed, endurance, power at 30 than you did at 25! Oh, and you run 3:28 and double win and Worlds and the Olympics. It's bizarro world...track style!

The only think bizarro in what you say is what's going on in your head.

Oops, fixed it...

Sagarin wrote:

My point in all of this, making comparisons to Lagat and what not, is that the 3:28.8 shouldn't be the rallying cry for cheating unless you also think that FARAH was cheating at the 2012 Olympic games (many do, I'm sure). The 3:28.8 in and of itself, while terribly impressive, is merely a data point. In reality, Farah was probably already capable of 26:50 before he joined Salazar and he has only improved his 5,000 PR by four seconds (though, admittedly, he should be able to go faster).

What Salazar has purposely worked on is Mo's finishing speed. So a guy who can blast the last couple of laps of a 5,000 or 10,000 to win, particularly the last lap, is also a guy who is probably capable of a very fast 1,500 under optimal conditions, which is what Farah got. He won't get the same opportunity again.

Sagarin wrote:

Bernard Lagat ran a 7:29 PR in the 3,000 at age 35 and a 12:53 PR in the 5,000 at age 36. He took the silver medal in the 5,000 in the 2011 WCs and the gold in the 5,000 in the 2012 indoor WCs. He was also a double gold medalist in the 1,500 and 5,000 at the 2007 WCs at age 31. Is he a doper?

I don't know.

butternutsnbabycorn wrote:

You don't become double gold on form alone...just ask my high-school teammate who runs like Geb, but could never break 18 in the 5k.

[/quote]

I hit like Barry bonds but I have no arms.

smell the coffee, wrote:

Emil Zatopek won 10k in 1948 Olympics at age 26. Then in 1952, at age 30, he won the 5k, the 10k, and the Marathon at the Olympics at age 30.

Distance runners tend to be at their best, if they stay healthy and motivated, in their late twenties or early thirties.

Farah's signature gift is his quickness at the end of long races. He used that quickness to produce a fast 1500.

As good as Zatopek was, this comparison really isn't relevant because the world is light-years ahead of anything Zatopek was doing at the height of his career. During his era you really could argue that training improved. That he wasn't running to his full potential until 30. Not so much now.

Of the top 10 all-time runners in the 5,000 and 1500, the number of runners who ran their fastest time over the age of 29?

I may have missed someone, but I only see one...Farah.

The next oldest was Cacho at 28 in the 1500.

At this point, I have no faith in anyone in the sport of T&F being legitimate.

VERY SUSPICIOUS THAT HE WON'T ATTEMPT A WORLD RECORD. IF HE DID HE WOULD BE CLOSE OR BREAK IT AND THAT WOULD ESSSENTIALLY PROVE HE IS DOPING. IF HE HAD NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT(GETTING CAUGHT), HE WOULD CHASE TIMES. BUT HE IS SCARED AND ON BORROWED TIME.

Sagarin wrote:

A Rose By Any Other wrote:

[quote]Sagarin wrote:

You'd think Centrowitz and, particularly, Rupp would've run 3:28 by now...

My point in all of this, making comparisons to Lagat and what not [...]

Lagat point taken. Lots well agere he old guy freek o nature but if Centrowitz and Rupp you say were in high school not miling "studs," what point is that? Mo Farah was some sort of miling superstar in England as youth, like Alan Webb? I don't think so. So no purpose you talk about Centrowitz and Rupp.

Some of you geys repeating the conclusions other guys make on first pages. Some even ignoring them! Some good ones on those pages. I say try to 'continue' the discussion.

[/quote]

Mo Farah was some sort of miling superstar in England as youth, like Alan Webb? I don't think so. So no purpose you talk about Centrowitz and Rupp.[/quote]

This the point I'm making. In order for you to run times (1500m) like he has or win races (5000/10000m) in the manner in which he has, there will be some indicators of this kind of talent along the way. He had zero indicators. A 1:48 800m at age 20 or whatever he ran is not an indicator of world class talent. That's what's fishy about him (well, it's the first thing). His progress (although he's older and his progress started later) was right in line w/ Solinsky. They were both low 13 (like 13:11 ish) guys who dipped under 13:00 (Solinsky further and he looked pretty good at the time), at the same time their mile/1500m times came down. Solinsky got hurt and Farah got with Salazar and all of a sudden was unbeatable. He had a very slow and steady progression that suddenly became RAPID when he reached the TOP END of his potential. That is not how things work. You have rapid improvement as you begin to realize your potential, then when you are near to maxing out, the improvement is very slow. None of this makes sense. Rupp's, Solinsky's, Teg's improvements are all much more logical. This is not logical in any way at all. In fact, it defies logic much like another Nike guy famous for wearing a yellow jersey.