Serious: why are most runners so slow?

'But think about a Bell curve- where is the median 5k time (let's say for males) ? I doubt it's at 20 min '

It's slower but hardly any of those are training properly

nocojones wrote:

White men can't jump wrote:

By the same token, anyone properly trained should be able dunk a basketball. Right?

A 20min 5k isn't even close to the difficulty of dunking a bball. It probably is even on par with an average height person touching the bottom of the net. A fairly pointless comparison, plus dunking is skewed towards extreme heights, while running is ideal at a more average height (lots of short and tall people that are successful).

Where are these 6-7 foot olympic marathon winners?

chinocochio wrote:

Where are these 6-7 foot olympic marathon winners?

Where did I say they were winning marathons? Plus, 6'7" is prob ~3 s.deviations off the median height. It's irrelevant though because being average height isn't detrimental to running fast. There are a lot of elite runners between 5'6" and 6'1", well encompassing the average height of most populations.

Dunking is very hard for an average height person. An average height male (say 5'9"-10") is going to need a nearly 40" vertical to be able to easily dunk the ball. Considering few NFLers even do that at the combine and there are guys in the NBA that are over 6' and cannot dunk, that says a lot.

So fck off, please.

White men can't jump wrote:

I will admit that the dunk comment was an exaggeration. Apparently there are a few NBA players who can't dunk:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1596440-nba-players-who-cant-dunk

But think about a Bell curve- where is the median 5k time (let's say for males) ? I doubt it's at 20 min until you start getting down to some select populations. That's mine (and regrettably Flagpole's) argument. We are used to very select groups.

Another context: anyone can get a X score on the SAT - if all they did was study for it with the proper study techniques, etc. Some folks just aren't wired that way. And with something as specialized as distance running, there aren't many who are.

Most people don't train hard or correctly, so that is pretty much irrelevant. If everyone that cared to trained hard and correctly, the median would be much faster. A 20min 5k isn't exactly a real accomplishment. Most people that train and don't achieve it simply didn't train correctly or are afraid of 'hurting' or feeling discomfort and fatigue.

nocojones wrote:

Dunking is very hard for an average height person. An average height male (say 5'9"-10") is going to need a nearly 40" vertical to be able to easily dunk the ball. Considering few NFLers even do that at the combine and there are guys in the NBA that are over 6' and cannot dunk, that says a lot.

So fck off, please.

Why did you bring NFLers into this? They don't need to dunk to play football and they don't practice their vertical jump. They just perform it at the combine. The guys that can't dunk in the NBA, do they have any need or intention to dunk? Have they actually specifically worked at it for years?

Also, "that says a lot" is a meaningless statement. What exactly does "it" say?

nocojones wrote:

chinocochio wrote:

Where are these 6-7 foot olympic marathon winners?

Where did I say they were winning marathons? Plus, 6'7" is prob ~3 s.deviations off the median height. It's irrelevant though because being average height isn't detrimental to running fast. There are a lot of elite runners between 5'6" and 6'1", well encompassing the average height of most populations.

Dunking is very hard for an average height person. An average height male (say 5'9"-10") is going to need a nearly 40" vertical to be able to easily dunk the ball. Considering few NFLers even do that at the combine and there are guys in the NBA that are over 6' and cannot dunk, that says a lot.

So fck off, please.

Whoa, overreact a lot? "fck off"?

I said 6 feet to 7 feet tall olympic marathon runners, not 6'7" feet elite runners.

I don't know a lot of elite 6'1" runners. Solinsky...who else? The elite marathoners are about 5'6", right? Then the milers are about 5'9" and elite sprinters, except for Bolt, are 5'9" also.

Mottram is 6.1

Life has changed. During the "Running Boom" of the 70's most runners were serious about competing. Now, you see local races encouraging "walkers". We see people making it just a goal to finish a 1/2 marathon in 2+ hours.

It is not unusual to see 3000 runners cross a finish line for a marathon after 4 1/2 hours.

Couple that with instead of "qualifying" for races such as Boston, you can now be a 5+ hour marathoner who raised $3000 and get in.

In short, it's getting slower, fatter and easier in our country.

Invading countries in 50 years won't have to worry. Most people in this country won't be able to get up off the couch.

Invaders will be able to just stroll in

gfxgxrgx wrote:

Why did you bring NFLers into this? They don't need to dunk to play football and they don't practice their vertical jump. They just perform it at the combine. The guys that can't dunk in the NBA, do they have any need or intention to dunk? Have they actually specifically worked at it for years?

Also, "that says a lot" is a meaningless statement. What exactly does "it" say?

It is an example. NFL and NBA players are in sports where power, speed, and jumping ability is advantageous. Don't be so fcking obtuse. There is a reason why these things are measured and considered at the combine. If guys with elite genetics that have been training for years rarely approach 40" verticals, how likely is it a 'normal' person will ever do it?

On the other hand, a decent runner at even the high school level will obliterate a 20min 5k. It is a completely different comparisons. Apples and oranges. Meaningless.

slow your roll son wrote:

Whoa, overreact a lot? "fck off"?

I said 6 feet to 7 feet tall olympic marathon runners, not 6'7" feet elite runners.

I don't know a lot of elite 6'1" runners. Solinsky...who else? The elite marathoners are about 5'6", right? Then the milers are about 5'9" and elite sprinters, except for Bolt, are 5'9" also.

This is pointless.

The comparison was a 20min 5k vs dunking.

Dunking is heavily dependent on height. Being average height or even +1std above average height requires a huge vertical, higher than that which average NFL and NBA combine participants reach.

A 20min 5k does not have nearly the same selection. Many more people accomplish it and it is certainly not height dependent. Height isn't a trainable quality. That's why the comparison is retarded.

Who cares if nobody 6'7" has won a marathon? That is already a tiny portion of the overall population, so it is rare that it would happen in the first place. Across the world, 5'6" is well within 'normal' height and not even outside of the 1st standard deviation in many populations. 6'7" is something like 3std deviations outside of it. It is a ridiculous comparison. Sure, someone 6'7" may never win an elite marathon. That has nothing to do with the fact that most able bodied males can run a 20min 5k nor anything to do with the fact that dunking ability is more dependent on height than it is training.

bump

You clearly don't do much running or know a lot about it. There are very few people who can run 10k under 30 minutes. The world record for the 10K road distance for women is 30:21 minutes

Florence wrote:

You clearly don't do much running or know a lot about it. There are very few people who can run 10k under 30 minutes. The world record for the 10K road distance for women is 30:21 minutes

I believe it was a joke.

Lol this is funny.

Justin91 wrote:

My friend has gotten into running and he's been consistent for about two years. He does three runs per week. A ninety minute long run, an hour run, and an interval session that takes about fifty minutes.

I don't believe his only runs for the week are a 90 min long run, a 60 min run, and a 50 min interval session. Unless he's running 3 miles, 2 miles and 3 miles, respectively. In which case he is actually walking and not running.

You may have gotten others to believe you but this is 100% lies.

Don't male runners still run 7 minute miles and all the others are still considered hobby joggers.

The notion that a certain training plan has a minimum time that corresponds to it is such BS. There exist people in this world that could not run sub-20 if that were literally their life goal. I have no idea whether your buddy is one of them but you seem to underestimate the sort of variance that exists in talent for distance running, when including the non-running population.

If you say sub 18 or sub 19 I'll start to believe you, but sub 20 is just slow enough that anyone seriously trying (maybe with the additional requirement that the person is in their 20s) will be able to manage.

Pain is relative and everyone seems to forget that. Someone running a 16 min 5k is likely to hurt just as much as someone running a 22 min 5k granted they're both trying as hard as they can.

I have a friend exactly like this, a female hobby jogger in her mid 30s who is struggling to break 36 minutes in the 5k, yes you heard me, 36 minutes. She says anything faster than 11 minute pace feels like sprinting so this leads me to believe that not being strong enough to actually push your body fast is a majorlimiting factor in my unathletic people who don’t improve, most people are very weak in the core and hips and do not know how to push off the ground and run effeciently.