ALL RUNNERS IN AMERICA WITH AVERAGE SPEED ARE CAPABLE OF........

Definately will take a sub 46 to break 1:41. From what I read Juantorena trained very hard, but he waas so big, I believe 6'2" and 175 lbs., that it was very difficult to maintain his 400m speed. Wohlhuter and Coe were very small body types with great foot speed. That's probably the type of runner it will take to break 1:41.

My PR's [long in the past]:

400: 68.4

880: 2:34

Mile: 5:34

5K: 17:47

10K: 37:25

Marathon: 2:48.16

50 Miles: 6:51.01

If I could run 2:48, anyone can.

Hannsen,

I admit I avoided running any races shorter than 1500 meters like 75 sharp, burning, flaming pokes to my eyeballs.

If my coach gave me two options:

Run 400 meters all out

or

run 15 miles all out,

I would have took the long run every time.

For me sprinting was torture.

I never did run a 400 fresh but I'm positive it wouldn't have been more than 1.59 seconds faster than what I could have run at at then end of a 5000 race run at 14:00.

Thank you for your advice.

Colorado wrote:

I never said that aerobic conditioning did'nt have alot to do with it but raw speed is a must to be sucessful in colliegte and national levels. O and by the way my first quater was done in 1:36 seconds on a indoor track and my first 200 was 27.9. I worked very hard for 4 years to run 49.

What kind of training did you do to get down to 49?

Getting back to the potental of an individual... I see the "average" person running around these times given 8-10 years of training (i.e. their maximum physical potental).

400m - :56

800m - 1:58

mile - 4:28

5K - 15:30

10K - 32:45

Marathon - 3:05:00

Keep in mind this is the "average" including football players, weight lifters, and so forth if they focused only on running (each specific event) for a serious length of time.

nope wrote:

I say a 57 guy maxes out at around 2:06.

My 440 best is 59.7 relay, hand timed. I've never raced the 800, but I easily ran 2:06 once while pacing some kids in a workout.

I have to go way the other way from Hodgie-san with what ALL runners in America are capable of. "All runners", by definition includes the worst case runner, and there are millions of people who can't even run run a lap. Don't tell me that all of those people can potentially whip themselves into shape - many can't whip their other bad health habits even in the face of death.

I also don't think the average male runner is capable of 57-59 in the 400. Look at any high school. What were the times for ALL the guys going out for track at your school? I did remember thinking that my 60 speed was slow even on my team (back in the '80s by the way), but I was only comparing myself to the varsity guys. There were plenty of JV juniors and seniors who where slower, and there would have been even more if most of them hadn't dropped out by their upperclassman years, discouraged because they knew they were slow.

why wouldn't any distance runner have 400m specific training in their program?

hannsen wrote:

well in my case my heels get very sore if i sprint/do fast speed work like sub 4:30 pace- although i try to as much as i can cuz i know its my weakness so i have to work on it. )

at that pace you shouldn't be running on your heels

Potential, those times don't match up at all. A marathon in 3:05? That is ridiculous. I don't see how you could think that their maximum potential after 10 years of training would be so slow. If their footspeed is bad, they will probably run superior times over longer distances. Several people on here have provided examples of themselves running very slow 400 times (slower than 56), but being able to run stellar distance times (much faster than 4:28/15:30/32:45/3:05).

That more or less refutes Lydiard then.

Doesn't it?

good point...personally, i CANT run on my heels for anything faster than 4:40 a mile. i fail to see how anyone can "sprint" on their heels and still reach any sort of high speed; i mean, not only are you not maximizing your stride length but your turnover isn't at its peak at that point.

i think thats something that people in this thread have forgotten to take a look at when concerning 400-800-1600 type speed: running style as a whole. the people i train with, the 800m crew, can all blaze a 52-54 or so, and run at around 1:55-2:00. They all run at least half of their 800m race on the toes. Whereas the 1600/3200 types, when they choose to come down a distance or two, all tend to run on their heels for a good portion of the race. Also, most of them are in the 55-58 400 range, and run 1:58-2:04. And, generally, the 800m specialists come out on top, just because they have both speed and endurance, whereas the 1600/3200 guys are a bit lacking in speed and a heck of a lot more developed in the endurance sector.

And then, if they really think they're tough shit, they come out and try to race us (the 4x8, 800m guys) and the sprinters at the end of a dual meet in the 4x4. And get blown out of the water

hehe my heels dont get sore from hitting the ground? Its cuz my achilles/bone growth on the back of heel is pretty much permenantly damaged. But ur right (i believe) about the heel striking i think its less efficient at a fast pace unfortunately that is my only option because otherwise the stress on the tendon is extreme for me and running might be impossible. I have had short stints where i attempted to move up onto balls of feet and i will continue to work on that sometimes but that is a serious danger area for me. It is good to think about though. And hey i never said i was reaching a high speed ;-).

Thought I posted this already. I lefted ALOT, I weighed 152lbs and could dead lift 400. I also ran a whole bunch I would run cross, then indoor, and then outdoor. During indoor I would run over distance stuff like the 600 and 800. Alot of my improvement could have also come from age I was only 14 my freshmen year.

We are all so different. There is so much that goes into each person's makeup.

440 57.6

880 2:06.1 I was very proud when I did that.

mile 4:32

2 mile 9:24.8

3 miles 14:36

6 miles 30:56

marathon between 2:32 and 2:28.22 eight times over a period of eleven years

rhymes with jump.

i find it almost impossible to believe that someone who ran a 57 quarter can run a 4:10 mile/1600. either you dont know how to run a 400, which is up on your toes, or...i dunno...there is no "or". its ridiculous. alan webb can rattle off a 47 or 48, and thats why he's hitting 1:46 in the 800, not because he can ran run a 53 and has incredible endurance. he prolly goes out in about 50-51 and holds on from there.

it is endurance -- more 47s runners can't run 1:46 than those that can

jman wrote:

Hypothetical American male runner:

-average leg speed of 57-59 sec. 400m

-healthy and no biomechanical problems

-has time and willingness to train

The average runner:

-over 60 sec 400m leg speed

-on high carb high fat diet with high arches or flat fleet

-has no time and only willingness to train 3 times a week

Predictions

Hypothetical Average

800: 1:59 2:30

mile: 4:21 5:24

2mile: 9:19 12:00

5K: 15:15 19:55

10K: 31:30 42:00

1/2 Mar: 1:10 1:35

Mar: 2:28 3:45