Sprintgeezer: Sprint training advice

Flo'da--

That stuff sounds good for basic sprint fitness.

When doing the squats that you say you have trouble with, how far down are you going? For general purposes, I wouldn't think you would need to do more than quarter squats, with which you shouldn't have stability or body positioning problems.

The thing with sprinting is learning to apply that power to the ground when actually accelerating and running, which has a LOT to do with body angles and position. You can have tons of power, but if you can't apply it effectively, you won't improve.

Your muscular and neurologic capabilities should be improving, now you must begin to translate them to the track surface in the service of acceleration, and top speed. Energy systems contributing to SE can be worked on the track itself, as you know.

Once you feel comfortable with whatever capability you have developed, you can start concentrating on angles, and on form--and even, in the acceleration stage, making sure that your power goes to the ground, and that you are not leaving headroom unused. That's what some advanced, higher-impact drills can be for, things like bounds and one-legged hops (think the triple jump action).

When you do the drills, make sure you think about them while you're doing them, so that you know that you are applying your force advantageously. Take a vid of yourself on acceleration, and compare it to some of the greats on youtube. Don't worry too much about contact time on acceleration, just make sure that you are pushing into the track.

@Sprintgeezer:

Also, 10.5 is not at world-class level, nor was it when I ran. And, I only went sub-10.5 once, and then, only just.

Subfive reply:

Yes, 10.3 or better would be WC. But 10.5 is serious fast.

SG:

I've got to ask, if he "does not even enjoy running" and is "barely interested in track & field", why do you have so much interest in him doing track?

Subfive reply:

Well, I think he gets enjoyment from the sprints. But not distance running. I have interest in him doing track cause I love track and I love to see what others can do in running, especially my own son cause I know he has above average ability...beyond my own.

SG:

Good luck on the 5k! For me, 5k stuff helped very much in the 800m. I cannot stress enough to you how much body weight mattered to me in my 5k efforts. Sub-2:30 is great, I don't know that I could do it right now. Even on my indoor track, running a 400 in 60 left me seriously winded! I think I would hit the wall at about 500m, at my current 185 lbs.

Subfive:

I've got a mile race next week...hoping for sub 5:40. All this sprint talk has got me thinking 400 and even 200! The last 100 I raced informally against my brother about 38 yrs ago left me with a hamstring pull...I've feared the 100 ever since.

I bet with 60 400 speed, you could maybe do 2:17? It would help to be less than 185. Are you in the 45-49 ag?

SG:

What are you weighing in at, and how tall are you?

Subfive reply:

I'm about 167 at 70"...was 157 in my prime. I struggle to stay under 170. If I could get to 160...we're talking sub 19 5k...but that's a super effort...which I can't seem to generate.

Yes, I'm 45-49.

I would like to try my hand at a timed 400 this year, although I haven't been training for it. I hope to "taper" down to maybe 177/178, and I'd like to hit sub-55, maybe 53. I could go sub-60 for sure right now, but I'm telling you, I would DIE at around 500m. I can feel it.

You're about my height. I set my 5k treadmill PR after a bout of illness, during which I lost a ton of weight, I forget how much, I think it was around 15 lbs or so IIRC. Probably mostly water, but whatever--it made a huge difference, I think around 40 seconds! I don't remember exactly, it is in the threads somewhere.

Regarding your son, does the guys get to train alongside the girls? I am absolutely serious when I say that I have known some decent male track athletes who went to the track only because they thought the girls were hot.

Heck, even Donovan Bailey said something to the effect that there are no fat chicks at the track!

Anyway, the girls could get him there, and then he might pick up some interest if he has some success.

Run any meets yet, Geezer?

The last few weeks I've been back home with a sore achilles and without a track. I have done sporadic work, mostly strides and a some quarter mile repeats (fast running has been easier on the achilles than jogging). Not consistent

I am back at school and have a track to work with so I went out and did a short workout. The heat nearly killed me even though the workout was nothing to brag about.

I warmed up with (besides the walk to the track) 3x200 in 36,35,34. Then I did 2x100 in 14.7 and 14.9 which was encouraging since that is around what I was doing before (just glad to have them under 15!). I was gonna do a few change of pace 150s but the heat broke me

Gonna lift later

Flo'da

Bad Wigins wrote:

Do yer sprint drills! A-skips, B-skips, butt-kicks, high knees and bounds.

Also lift weights, everyone will tell you to do that.

Whats the purpose of these drils? Is this relevant for 800m as well? I started doing weights myself last fall: deep squats/straight legged rumanian deadlifts + some core, 5x5. Haven't improved the slightes on speed this year, actually become slower. How is that possible?

Flo'da is that really as fast as you can go?

I mean for real. You're sprinting all out and can only hit 14.7?

Are you partially disabled or something?

Flo'da--

No, no meets yet. There was one this past weekend, but it was, no kidding, 52 degrees with a 17mph headwind, into a driving rain.

No thanks!

The summer season here starts up next week, might go for an easy rust-buster just to get used to the sound of the gun.

I feel good, though, except I know my overall endurance is still down, meaning that I will probably burn myself out in warmup,lol

Watch those achilles. Mine were bothering me last year, and I also found that going faster was much easier on them than jogging. I took a bunch of time off, and have laid off the jogging--and they are perfect this year.

When you run, make sure your feet are cocked, and hit the track in a power position, already flexed. In my experience this is essential for preserving your achilles, as well as for going faster.

I have thought about it, and I would recommend sit-squats like an earlier poster recommended, to release the quads and really hit the glutes, hams, and adductors. So much of sprinting comes from that area, and I think that when starting out, it is an extremely high-value movement. Heck, it's even a high-value movement when trained.

It's good that you feel good keeping the 100's under 15, and it will be interesting to see what 14.7 translates to with electronic timing. Remember, paw that ground, don't overstride, don't lean back, and drive the foot down. Make sure you drive the knees forward on acceleration.

Also work to find a comfortable block position, if you have access to blocks. There are many theories on this, but find one that you feel allows you to develop speed not immediately out of the blocks, but between about 20-50m, one where at 20m you feel like your body is in a good position to really get some speed going--hips in the right place, stride length correct, head still down and smoothly driving down the track.

Speed immediately out of the blocks (block clearance) will come later, as the effect of weights and power exercises start to kick in.

Thoughts on this geezer?

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=5227494

Sadly 14.7 and 29.xx is all I can muster right now but I am working on improving, as that's the whole point.

Better yourself!

And thanks again for the advice Geezer. Funny how different the weather is up there, lol. Too cold and windy there, too ht and humid here.

Still no access to blocks. I did some wall sits though. My achilles felt just fine when I went to the gym later and did a few 50's on the indoor track. I felt quick. I think I've found a good place in my form. I'm bounding a bit which keeps my foot flexed for quick (relatively) movement.

Did the quad and hamstring machines since the gym was too crowded for me to get to the dead lifts. May go do something easy today, some rowing or stairmaster, and if possible deadlifts.

What's your training been like of late?

Hey guys, I’ve enjoyed reading this thread and have found it very helpful. I’ve been running 5K’s and such for most of the past 10 years but decided to do sprints last year as I figured the training would be more enjoyable and might even help me keep up with the kids at my son’s soccer practice. I’m looking for some recommendations on a pretty prescriptive sprint training program (60m to 200m).

I used to use the Daniels book for 5K training and loved it. The 26 week training program and tables were fantastic. Do you know if anything like that exists for sprinters? I hadn’t found one, so I was doing powerlifting 2-3x per week and doing 150-200m repeats with stride drills and start practice 2-3x as well. Some Saturdays I’d do plyometric work (box jumps, side jumps, lunges, etc.). Overall it seemed to work pretty well (my time improved as I gained weight and got stronger) but I’d like to improve further.

BUMP! Came to this thread from another one where a distance runner was converting to sprint training for a few months.

Great thread! Why did it stop? Flo'da boy and Sundance are you still at it?

Yeah I'm still here and still at it (though life and such has taken priority and gotten in the way)! I guess the thread kind of dissipated once Sprintgeezer left the boards.

For the sake of continuing the conversation here's what I've been up to (it's hardly a work schedule to imitate, but I'm here very much to learn!):

4-7 6x400m tempo, one minute between reps

4-8 jumps, weights (bench focus); 10x100m

4-9 2 miles

4-12 3x40yd crouch starts, lunges, random exercises

4-13 5x100yds (13.5-14.5s) focusing on keeping the foot cocked

4-14 Weights

4-15 4x400m tempo

4-17 strides and jogging

4-18 Weights, box jumps; hard mile effort +jogging

Not much to look at here, I just started writing out what I do (I guess I'm very much a hobby jogger anyway). The bigger picture is that I've been lifting a lot of weights and doing a lot of 30-60m sprints, and as a result I've gained about 15 pounds of muscle (whether enough this will end up being helpful remains to be seen). My goal is still to break 60 in the quarter, though it would be amazing if I could run under 13sec for the 100m.

Why did Sprintgeezer leave the boards? The dude had a lot of wisdom. Sure he could rub people the wrong way at times but his posts were always entertaining.

I was a mediocre sprinter in high school. At about age 30, I started running again, mostly to stop smoking. I did that. I kept the running up in road races. It was fun. In my early 40's, I decided to give the track a try. I knew I could win medals there and I wanted some. I couldn't do that on the roads. To my surprise, I found out I that I could still run near my high school times except now among old men they were good and no longer mediocre. On the downside, I was always hurt. Sprinting as an old man hurts! I'm in my late 50's now. I've been in and out of shape since then. When I'm in shape I can generally win my age group in road races. I always said that an old age group winner is a guy without a life so I'm not trying to brag here. I have a nine year old son who is just taking up running (sprinting) so I'm going to make another attempt at the shorter stuff to hang with him but would like to focus on the 800 meters. They're only running like 2:20's nationally and I think I still have one of those in me. I want to be ready by age 60. I've got 50 pounds to lose though. Right now the legs haven't woken up. If I were to sprint all out, I'd pull a muscle within the first 10 meters but I feel like it's still there. I've been told on this board that the legs will wake up eventually. When I was training in my 40's I mostly did intervals, 25 yard block work and 35 yard flys, a lot of high intensity stuff. I'm shooting for about 13 seconds in the 100 as well. That should put me just under 60 seconds for the 400. However, that could be total BS on my part. To expect that at age 60 may be completely unrealistic. I'll know in a year or two. When I was in my 40's, it took about two years to transition from a 20 minute 5K guy to 58 second 400 meter guy. It took a long time.

Thanks for the contribution FB! Too bad Sprintgeezer isn't here, as he might have some good insight into masters running. I hope it works out well and keep us updated with it! What were your high school times?

And Sprintgeezer left because there were a couple of posters who continually dropped into the sprint threads and (as is too common on these boards) and tried to give a racist bent to everything, and he just got fed up and left, or that's what I thought happened

The 800!! So you are a 800m guy in his late 50s...that's where I'm at too. If you can go sub 2:30 when you're 55-59, that's pretty good. I think sub 13 for 100m is a higher degree of difficulty.

Now if I could

go 60 for 400m, I ought to be capable of sub 2:20 fo 800m, which is more than good...

Reviving this old thread once again as I will be running my first actual 200m race tomorrow. There's an open event in Atlanta where I'm living temporarily and maybe if they do them periodically I can have something to really train for. I have little hope of not embarrassing myself but if I'm lucky the blocks won't slide out under me haha

Sprintgeezer wrote:

That is why guys like Farah are lucky to run around 13 FAT, while being distance-trained.

As I've said before, I just don't buy that. Coe wold have been capable of sub-11 at his peak. My 14yo kid who is an 800 runner is sub-12, and there's no way he'd beat Farah over 100m.

Farah can CLOSE a 5km in 52, which is 4 x 13. You really think that means he's running at max 100 speed for 400m at the end of a 5km? That concept makes no sense. He coldn't do it at any time, let alone at the end of a race.

Karma Police wrote:

Sprintgeezer wrote:

That is why guys like Farah are lucky to run around 13 FAT, while being distance-trained.

My 14yo kid who is an 800 runner is sub-12, and there's no way he'd beat Farah over 100m.

We seem to share the same opinions regarding sprint training for distance runners.

Out of interest, if you don't mind, what was/is his 14yo PB at 800, or longer, if he runs it, off that sort of speed?