17:08? Sam Wharton? Get yourselves together, Nike

I really think that Nike does do a good job with the event as a whole. The weekend was one of the coolest experiences a kid could have and it's something in itself that they were the one's to start the team national championship. The course is usually reasonable with stretches where there is solid footing. Unfortunately yesterday was a little ridiculous. Teams literally couldn't find their box at the starting line because it was completely mud. Maybe 15-20 kids fell in the first 200 meters. That just got a bit out of hand, but unless they somehow find a way to manage the course, it isn't going to change because I can guarantee they won't change the course.

NXNrunner wrote:

But as someone who did run the race, I sort of feel like my team and I were jibbed; I don't feel like the race was an accurate representation of who the best team or individual in the country is. That being said, Wharton and Arcadia were clearly the best competitors for those conditions.

See here's the thing, you're not always going to get ideal conditions to prove "who the best team or individual" is, especially in cross country. In any race, it's going to come down to who deals with it the best. The sooner you learn that now, my young friend, the better you will be as a runner.

Some races will be in 100 degree weather, some in howling winds, some in pouring rain, others in blinding snow, and some in deep mud. You have to play the cards you're dealt. And in relation to NXN, everyone knows the mud card will be dealt, and there is really no excuse for expecting otherwise.

neanderthal dream wrote:

Petition Nike

don't waste your time wrote:

Nike doesn't care what happens to the runners.

Then go right on ahead filling message boards with rants that no one cares about. Or host your own. Or don't go. Those are really your only options.

You know what, when they were ramping up this whole thing, taking on FLN and all, Nike needed a gimmick--or at least felt they did.

Mud was a great gimmick (Remember the "Get Your Mud On" slogan?), and they had the course that could produce it on a fairly reliable basis. Mud would make this their signature event.

Ever since, they've played up the mud factor. And, in a couple of those years (this year included), the mud got really out of control.

It would be nice if Nike would say, "You know what, we have the organizational upper hand now, we don't really need this much mud. In fact, it's costing us more than its gaining us in the PR game. People know we're not the meet to come to if you want to take your uniform off just as unspotted as when you put it on, but maybe we don't need the albatross of the Portland Meadows Swamp hanging around our neck any longer."

I'm not sure how much hope I hold out for that epiphany to happen. But, if they'd move this meet to a course like Ft. Vancouver where there could be some mud but without the whole swamp thing, they might be able to make FLN irrelevant in about two-three years.

As things stand now, you have a nice percentage of top kids who simply don't want to go to Portland Meadows for the crowning race of their high schools careers. They'd rather decide it on a more reliable, less gimmicky course. And I can't say as I blame them. Yes, they'll deal with the rain if that's what Balboa Park dishes out on race day, but all the squishy possibilities of Portland Meadows aren't very appealing for the kind of event NXN purports to be. They're a lot more appealing for a throwaway Tuesday invitational meet in September.

I don't know, however, if there's enough maturity on the Nike that strategizes this thing to own up to the fact that their gimmick has outlived its purpose. I hope there is. But, at the moment, I see them locking into the same kind of bullheaded stupidity about their own way of doing things that Foot Locker demonstrated a few years back. It was FL's bullheaded stupidity that led to the rise of the Nike regional system in the first place. We'll see what happens now in round two.

From this year's experience forward, the Portland Meadows course is a liability for Nike. They stand no hope of increasing their share of top-end individuals at this point, and they could possibly start alienating some teams. There were already some teams pretty unimpressed with having the microphone shoved in their collective faces and being asked to wax eloquent on how much they loved the mud.

To paraphrase, "To be honest with you, Mr. Wheating, the course was dreadful. Please pass that up the line to the Nike brass."

don't waste your time wrote:

neanderthal dream wrote:

Petition Nike

Nike doesn't care what happens to the runners.

Just about every interview I heard all the runners stated that they were treated like royalty.

I believe it is Nike personnel and money that make the runners feel this way.

So how can you, who did not compete, say that Nike doesn't care about runner when all the runners say they do.

The 2009 Big Sky XC Championships in Greeley, CO were just as, if not muddier than this. Quit complaining.

??????? wrote:

Seriously, WTF?? This is a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP? A bunch of no names taking the top spots? What the hell happened? I thought this was the national XC Championships, not the national swimming championships! I feel like Nike just poured gallons and gallons of water upon the course! This isn't some obstacle/crappy condition/ultra type runner race, this is a high school cross country race. These kids want to run fast. WTF

Read this article and look at the pictures.

Great article. The comments from the Europeans only point out what wusses some Americans have become. Wharton was the man, he showed toughness that college coaches will be looking for. I bet his stock is soaring after this weekend. 20 years from now, the tough runners will be telling their kids about this race and how they ran tough.

You wanna see who the toughest, strongest runner is, run a 5 mile race with hills in 90 degree heat. Don't run a national championship to prove who the toughest runner is, run a national championship to prove who the best runner is. Toughest doesn't equal best. Running 1/2 + foot in water is a joke.

If Nike advertises a national championship, they should treat the race like one. Think about this - you're an elite junior (class of 2014). You have a shot to win the national championship. You're fully aware that the elite, top runners from the year ahead that chose to do NXN finished horribly. Now, I'm not going to make any assumptions/predictions, but my guess is Leingang isn't going to eat sh*t again next week, and all the other favorites aren't going to either. I mean seriously, saying they pussed out? They ran in shit! Yeah, maybe they expected mud, seeing as all but Burcham ran last year in this race, but they didn't expect a freaking pond!

Also, you say your team was ranked in the back half coming in yet "spanked: SLC? The only team to beat SLC that was ranked in the back half was West Kennewick, and if you think beating a team by 7 points is spanking them, you're seriously mistaken. Well I'm glad that you've now told the world who you are, and I'll be sure to root against your boys whenever possible.

Yeah the course cost all of the favorites a chance at a championship!

I mean look at Manlius girls. They ran awful and it was because of the mud.

Oh wait, they won their 7th straight NXN Championship and won by 100 points. Overcoming the obstacles and getting the job done is what champions do.

Congrats to Manlius and Arcadia as well as Sammy boy and Sarah Baxter

What this race did was shake out those who have will and disire from those who shirk at any discomfort. This is the best that we want from Cross Country. You don't want to run in inclement conditions...go run an indoor 800 meter race and leave XC to those with some inner (and outer) strength.

Wow, this thread is very informative. Before reading, I always thought it was okay and legal to have mud in cross country, but I guess not.

The Original Posta wrote:

You wanna see who the toughest, strongest runner is, run a 5 mile race with hills in 90 degree heat. Don't run a national championship to prove who the toughest runner is, run a national championship to prove who the best runner is. Toughest doesn't equal best. Running 1/2 + foot in water is a joke.

The best runner is the one who can handle the conditions. If someone is good at track, doesn't mean they'll be a good cross runner. Toughness is more of a mental ability to look at the conditions and perform the best under them. Any course you make is going to play to someone's advantage. Oh, it rains. Maybe someone likes running in the rain; that's to their advantage. Wharton seemed as though he fueled off of it. So Wharton was the best runner out there, he was able to deal with the conditions.

17:08 tells me it was real XC, not this garbage where kids run 14:30 on what is basically a downhill road race.

XC has nothing to do with times. It has to do with winning.

Get Real People wrote:

It is called Cross Country, not Track. What is everybody's obsession with running flat, fast courses in XC? Cross Country is not meant to see who can run the fastest time on the easiest course possible. It is meant to show who is the toughest runner out there and can withstand any and all conditions. Sam Wharton proved today that he is much tougher than anybody else in that race.

Or, we can just skip the bullsh!t and just have Track year round and run Cross Country on the Track if all of you complainers want it that way. Learn the difference between the two sports. We're all becoming too obsessed with fast times rather than toughness.

I ran D1 XC for 4 years about 10 years ago, and never experienced the huge mudhole type course (if I recall correctly). Most of it was rolling hills, grass, dirt,cinder, etc. Maybe its cause I didn't live in Oregon. If the sport is trying to groom the best of these kids to be elite 5 and 10k runners for the future of Olympic distance running, lets have it without the rain and mudholes.

MW Nike wrote:

Yeah the course cost all of the favorites a chance at a championship!

I mean look at Manlius girls. They ran awful and it was because of the mud.

Oh wait, they won their 7th straight NXN Championship and won by 100 points. Overcoming the obstacles and getting the job done is what champions do.

Congrats to Manlius and Arcadia as well as Sammy boy and Sarah Baxter

I see your point but you can't compare the girls and the boys races. The girls tore up the course making it how it was for the boys. It was a lot more muddy for the guys than it was for the girls.

So mud doesn't allow the best runners to perform and hampers the development of elite future olympians?

Anyone recall, world XC 2001?

Senior Women (long course): Radcliffe(1st), Wami (2nd), Cheromei (3rd)

Senior Women (short course): Wami (1st), Radcliffe (2nd), Masai (3rd)

Junior Women: Cheruiyot (5th), Dibaba (6th), Kipyego (8th)

Junior Men: Bekele (1st), Ritz (3rd)

That list didn't go on to do too badly for themselves!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZk_xqRzMJk&playnext=1&list=PL53EA8625CEE87AD6&feature=results_main

Toughness Shows wrote:

What this race did was shake out those who have will and disire from those who shirk at any discomfort. This is the best that we want from Cross Country. You don't want to run in inclement conditions...go run an indoor 800 meter race and leave XC to those with some inner (and outer) strength.

Puke. Running well in mud doesn't mean you have more inner or outer strength than anyone else, it just means you run well in mud. Some do, some don't. Has ZERO to do with toughness and everything about your stride rate and your mechanics. Get over yourself.