Nearing 50 and my legs are trashed

17:42 at 50 is not that great, I highly doubt he's lying. While it's respectable, it can certainly be done with 4 days of training.

Because you only got back to running, you need to build it back up slowly. I'm 48, running since high school, and with injuries beginning in my early 40's, I had to almost reset my running - I ran/walked during my workouts to get my endurance back. for almost a year. When I was back running regularly, I spend 2-years base-building, with only bouts of speed-work, but nothing serious. I stayed in shoes that supported me and now can run 80 mile weeks again. with some speedwork. I don't run them as fast as I use to, but I can still run. You have to reprogram the speed factor, and some fast runners from the past can't.

Well, it's pretty great. And some might at the age be able to do it on 4-days of training, but many would not.

Smismard wrote:

Get thee to the weight room. I'm 48 and doing lots of squats and lunges seems to have turned the clock back 10 years on my legs.

Yep. i lift 3x week religiously and do planks and pushups daily. i'm running better now in my mid 40s than when i was in my mid 30s. it's about being able to run. if you aren't injured, you can train. lifting has kept all of the chronic injuries from 25 yrs of running under control. my rule is no lifting then no running.

Great story! Wish we had more like that on LetsRun.

Why the unfortunate experience at Harvard? Do you follow Ed Whitlock's running? What career path did you follow?

Hey poptarts, how do you reply to posters in the manner you used? (lines enclosing message)

Ed Whitlock is a miracle, but there are many fogeys out there who can still do respectable marathons, which I cannot. I believe that slow marathons are chiefly a test of joints and bones and not worth the trouble and training for most of us.

Ultras are incomprehensible to me though at the moment they are spreading like a plague through the trail racing circuit, to the point that I have to chase down road races on some weeks.

At Harvard, I couldn't figure out how to juggle four or five different subjects plus track. I became a writer (15 books) in order to focus on one subject at a time.

As I grew older, running became more and more important to my life and morale. It literally keeps me alive and productive. Now my race is often the high point of my week, though I continue to write (two books coming out this year and another next year).

thepinkmonkey wrote:

You, sir, are truly what's called a "master."

Thanks for sharing.

Great stories gg. And for anyone who doesnt know who George gilder is- take a look on Wikipedia.

DummyUser wrote:

Hey poptarts, how do you reply to posters in the manner you used? (lines enclosing message)

Before you type anything, hit the "Quote" button. It made your message appear on my screen above this inside some brackets and computer text. It appears on the site as lines.

Enjoy your running.

Often User Error wrote:

DummyUser wrote:

Hey poptarts, how do you reply to posters in the manner you used? (lines enclosing message)

Before you type anything, hit the "Quote" button. It made your message appear on my screen above this inside some brackets and computer text. It appears on the site as lines.

Enjoy your running.

You mean like this! haha

thanks

In Run Faster, Brad Hudson has some interesting thoughts on this subject:

"Properly trained older runners can handle hard workouts, but the cannot do them as often as younger runners can...older runners need to train efficiently, focusing on "big bang for the buck" workouts and minimizing "filler" workouts, in oder to minimize the negative effects of repetitive impact on tissue elasticity in their legs... In view of all of these aging factors, slower recovery and adaptation, declining tissue elasticity, and declining mobility and strength, I recommend that masters runners take a cross training approach to training. IN this approach, one runs only three or four times per week; most of all of these runs are harder workout; and the running schedule is supplemented with nonimpact cardio cross training, mobility training and strength training." ibid, p. 212

Another book to take a look at would be In the Long Run by Bob Schul. He states that he ran 17:55 for 5K at age 60 and 39:55 for 10K at age 61 while doing about 30 MPW (p. 198)

Finally, Running on the Third Wind by Mike Tymn includes interviews with 25 great masters runners.

In my case, I'm 68 and have been running for 55 years. Lately, I've been averaging about 10 runs/week for about 10 hours/week total. However, during the past month or so, I've had to cut back to something like what Hudson is recommending due to overall tiredness. I hope its temporary but I'm going to give the Hudson program a try and see what happens. The fatigue may simply be due to the combination of very hot weather recently and too much frequency, i.e. not allowing the body to recover properly at my age. I raced 26 times last year but only 3 times this year so far. I broke 21 min for 5K three times last year and ran a couple of 1:41 halfs.

Tailgunner wrote:

-get away from 400-mile intervals until your legs feel great.

I had to give up those 400-mile intervals too. After just one, the plane ticket back home got too expensive.

I'm a 43 year old physician. I ran in high school and college. I got back into running at age 40. I suffered the "normal" setbacks: plantar fascitis, quadrecepts strain, and stress fracture. I was unable to increase my mileage beyond 60mpw without getting hurt or feeling like my legs were shot. I got some terrific advice from several great masters runners (Sean Wade and Carl Rundell). I also used some advice from some of my sports medicine colleagues. Here's what has worked for me:

1. Aqua Run on easy days. Water has a terrific healing effect. There is resistance in the water which will strengthen your legs. I get the benefit of a slow recovery run without the pounding and gravitational stress.

2. Core Work: I do 2 - 3 hours/week of fairly intense Core/Stretching exercise. I recommend 2 great programs: Core Fusion (Exhale) or Bar Method. You need to strengthen muscles which will stabilize your spine and pelvis: adductors, abductors, and core muscles. These programs also encourage flexibility and upper body lean muscle strength.

3. Maximize your running days then recover in the pool. I run 4 days/week and 3 days in the pool. I do a general aerobic run on Monday, interval workout on Tuesday, Tempo run on Thursday, and long run on Saturday. I get 65 miles/week in most weeks in those 4 days. Most of my runs are between 5:30 - 6:30 mmp so there are no "junk" miles.The Aqua Run lets me recover for the next run. Read Jimmy Grabow's interview from RunningTimes.

4. Sleep, Hydrate, Good nutrition. Whenever possible run on a softer surface.

Using these principles I've lowered my Marathon time from 3:16 (age 40) to 2:36 (age 43). I hope you'll continue to run hard, experiment with different ideas and find what works for you. Unless your body has a disease process (examples....heart disease, diabetes, hypertension, cancer, etc) I can't think of a situation where you would "wear out." Yes, we all get older but we also get smarter. Good luck to you!

This is a sad, but interesting thread.

I have been running since 1973 and ran in both high school and college and have done about 50 marathons through the years (first in 1977 last a couple of years ago), but I am only an average runner. I have been fighting imbalance problems for years and finally figured out I had a labral tear in my hip. I had to stop running 2 years ago. Last summer, I finally had the surgery. Recovery was at first quick (some running 3 weeks post surgery and I did 8 miles 2 months after the surgery). Then things bogged down. Besides trying to rebuild the muscles around my hip, I can't get past that trashed leg feeling. My runs are now a minute or two minutes per mile slower. If I start stringing a couple of days together, I feel worse. My legs have no snap. My 5K time is 3-5 minutes slower than I was doing just 2 years ago. Some of it is weight gain from inactivity, but I can't sprint or run fast even for a short bit. There is never any zip in my legs. I hope I get it back with more work, but reading these posts sounds so familiar to my experiences lately and I hope it is all not just aging. I am only 53.

I have to say - I don't buy this getting old reason for many of the problems cited...i find just the opposite.

I do not accept the conventional wisdom on most things and am willing to try new things in training. There are so many conventional wisdom "myths" that i have never accepted.

- have to take X number off days after a marathon or 1/2

- shouldn't do hard workouts back-to-back

- running on concrete is hard on your legs

- shouldn't bump your milage up by more than X % a week

- should take X amount of time off each year or at the end of each season

- you have to take suppliements

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I tend to agree. Injuries are a large part of my running at 45. Probably would be the case if I was 30 because I enjoy pushing the limits. The key is to listen to your body and back off when appropriate. Something I haven't quite mastered as of yet but getting better at recognizing the subtle to obvious signs.

Look at all the top young American runners over the last 3 years. Many have been sidelined for lengthy periods of time. Some come back strong and some fade away. Same applies to us older runners and slightly more often as the years pass.

Reading these threads, it looks like there are a lot of different responses to the same type of training, and a lot might depend on the sort of runner you are.Most seem to be looking at 5ks, but I come at it from the standpoint of 5k being "going up in distance" from where I would be most comfortable if I had regular opportunities to race on the track (I'd prefer 1500m or 3000m) whereas a lot of people on here are more distance runners.I find the "long" say 75-90 min the hardest session to recover from and have to take it very carefully, but I'm good doing faster stuff on the track - I can still do 10 x 200m with 2 min in averaging around 32.0, and usually run 4 x 100m in around 14/15 after a session of long reps. On the other hand, I find I can only handle a long run once every two weeks, and I think most other 17:40 - 17:50 type 50-55 year olds would eat me alive on a long run.So I think different things are going to work for different folks. The weights and plyometrics are probably easier for us shorter distance guys than those with a lot of slow twitch too. I've never got round to cross-training (although my sister who is a world indoor 50+ winner does a lot of water running and a lot less on the roads). At 55, I'm still Ok with alternating 60 min or 90 min as the long run; 1 track session; one tempo or fast finish run; and two steady runs say 40-50 min, a week, with the other two days off, or just 20 min easy jog. Off that, Ive basically stayed in the 17:33 - 17:45 range for about the last 5/6 years.That injuries that came basically from the way I'm made, that I had in my 20's don't seem to come up now I'm running about 45 seconds per mile slower, as the stresses are a lot less!

Life is a permanent holistic process. The crucial point: acceptance in a fundamental sense. Without this, aging (= living) which actually means reduction to the essential becomes more difficult from year to year.

lighten up wrote:

17:42 at 50 is not that great, I highly doubt he's lying. While it's respectable, it can certainly be done with 4 days of training.

You're 30 years old, right?

I'll be honest--it sounds to me like you may have fried yourself on too much interval work and racing over the years. The reality is that as you age you must back off on the intensity and amount of anaerobic work you do--if you don't it is inevitable that your body will stop performing. You can still run and do well if the bulk of your running is aerobic. I'm amazed at how many people ignore the obvious and continue training like they did in their 20's.