Name the current Kenyans who are doping.
Name the current Kenyans who are doping.
Runthedistance wrote:
Name the current Kenyans who are doping.
There are none. NONE.
Renato can vouch for each and every one of them. He is with them physically 24 hours a day, 7 days a week so he can be sure and we can all be 100% certain that there is not one single Kenyan athlete who has EVER used PEDs.
Unfortunately here in the US we do not have a Coach Renato. Perhaps Salazar can step into the void and vouch for every single American athlete.
Coach Ronato don't coach every single Kenyan runner. Makau and Mutai G are self trained
Renato Canova wrote:
At the beginning, the interview was fine. There was only the obvious possibility that also some kenyan athlete coul be doped. But, after, there was the interview with the doctor, that said "I have a great experience in blood doping in this Country".
Is checkbook journalism an accepted practice in Germany, as it is in some countries? That might explain this.
Its is an Olympic year and everyone is trying to make a quick buck. These journalists job is to break news about doping and cheating in sports, there is a motivation to do a story even though the source or proof is sketchy. These reporter might have underestimated the Kenyans knowledge of the sport, these guy is going to eat an humble pie soon. The Kenyans on twitter will shred these reporter and the station into pieces like they did CNN.http://www.bizcommunity.com/Article/111/66/72184.html
One could get a fake Passport in Nairobi? Cool! :)
Runthedistance wrote:
Who are these Kenyans who say we dope? The runners or the guy in the street? I am a kenya and I say we don't dope and my family and my friends and community say we don't dope.
Yes, you are saying that. I respect your passion for your country and I absolutely LOVE Kenya myself. I wish it was feasible for me to live there. HOWEVER, your posts DO show your bias. You talk somewhere, for example, about how all these athletes have opportunities to be doctors, lawyers, etc. That's not the reality in Kenya at all. As for the Kenyans that say "we" dope... it's not a case of saying all Kenyans do or don't dope. It is a case of saying that Kenyans are human. They are neither better than other humans nor worse. Some dope and some do not. If you ask MOST Kenyan athletes, however, they will say that they believe other Kenyans (as well as people from all other nationalities) do dope.
Are you saying Kenyans don't have doctors, nurses, bankers etc. Until recently most of the Kenyan runners worked for the Armed forces, farming is not the only option as people allege. It seems like alot of people are accusing Kenyans because they want them to be "human" dopers. Being human does not mean you have to dope. Kenyans are humans and they don't dope. I am being biased because I know Kenyan runners and Kenyan running because I was one of them myself.
A Mzungu Perspective wrote:
I lived in Nairobi for almost three years (near Westlands most of the time). That doesn't mean I know anything in particular about Kenyan distance runners or doping.
But I know this: it would be no problem for me to find a Kenyan pharmacist/doctor who, if asked, would tell a mzungu that they could help dope distance runners and had experience doing so. It would also be no problem to find a Kenyan who, if asked, would tell a mzungu that they could prove that Barack Obama was born in Kenya. Or a Kenyan who would, if I asked him, claim to know where that precious metal Madeupium might be mined in Kenya.
For many Kenyans (not all!), the standard response to questions of the form "do you know..." or "can you help me with ..." is "Yes" if a mzungu (white foreigner) is the one asking, particularly if the mzungu is a stranger. In my opinion, the motivation is a variable mix of cultural factors (wanting to be helpful) and economic factors (helping mzungus is often seen as the road to wealth).
In fact, this is a regular challenge in daily life for expats living in Kenya. Ask a taxi driver in Nairobi, "Do you know the way to X?" or the guy at the computer shop "can you unlock my iPhone?" and 90% of the time, the answer is going to be "yes" ... even if they have no clue.
While the German journalist is apparently well-respected, I wonder how much experience he has in East Africa or other developing nations, where simply being white means you are assumed to be wealthy and powerful and, as such, people (like people everywhere) have a tendency to give you answers that seem likely to lead to you sharing some of that wealth with them. That the journalist initiated the discussion by asking questions specifically about doping may seem like a minor point, but in this context that makes a big difference (in my opinion). If he hadn't said anything about doping, and just identified himself as a manager, and was then offered doping services, that would be much more significant.
Look, I really have no idea who is doping. The Kenyans could be doped to the gills for all I know. But from my experience I would not take this report as evidence of much of anything. If you think otherwise (and are white) I suggest going to Nairobi and asking people if they know where you can buy the iPhone 7 and see what kind of answers you get.
I THINK YOU PUT A STAKE THROUGH THE HEART OF THIS BULLSHIT MONSTER
which is to say..Doc told reporter what he wanted to hear, and sell him god knows what?
hey Doc, whatcha got to say about that?
trollism wrote:
Busting a few Kenyans WILL NOT mean that European athletes start winning medals in distance races - at least not to any meaningful level.
You catch a few and more take their place - East Africa will be dominant in the sport no matter what happens. Clean/dirty - whatever.
How could you possibly know this? Unless you're in Iten administering the doping program you say exists and have seen 27:10 men go on to be 26:40 and 2:04 marathoners, how would you know this?
trollism wrote:
A guy posted a very pertinent point a towards to end of the second page - discussing the 'running to and from school, clean living, yada yada yada'. This is the naive public perception of East African athletes - this is what the IAAF are working to maintain.
Why? So Kenyan companies can continue to sponsor major events or so that the KBC can bid billions of dollars for television rights?
trollism wrote:
In terms of international distance running, the credibility of Kenyan/Ethiopian athletes is the credibility of the sport.
I see no evidence for this. Who the outside this message board (or even on it) knows who these people are:
Eric Ndiema
Bernard Kipyego
Michael Kipyego
Stephen Kibet
Stephen Chemlay
Wilson Loyanae
John Kiprotich
Stephen Tum
Laban Korir
Albert Matebor
Dicksson Chumba
Lukas Kanda
Nicholas Manza
Joseph Langat
Felix Keny
Geoffrey Gikuni
The list goes on and on. On what basis do you claim that the credibility of track and field rises and falls with anonymous Kenyans, who have absolutely no name recognition whatsoever, as opposed to well known western athletes who actually garner coverage in the industrialized world?
trollism wrote:
It doesn't matter if only 5 Kenyans are doping out of 20000. If they catch those 5, they're all tainted. That's why it's best to catch none.
And yet they caught:
Delilah Asiago
Pamela Chepchumba
Susan Chepkemei (while pregnant)
Lydia Cheromei (also while pregnant)
Simon Kemboi
Elizabeth Muthuka
John Ngugi (why did the tester even go to see him?)
That's seven athletes right there. By your own standards, all of Kenya should now be tainted in the public eye.
All I've seen from you is your statements saying that if Kenyans turn up positive tests, the sport is tainted beyond repair as in cycling which then will kill media interest and sponsorship. Why is that? Why would athletes that hardly anybody outside of the most ardent track nut are even casually familiar with be the lynchpin that holds track and field together? Especially when all the evidence suggests that Kenyan domination is killing interest in the sport in Europe. You've got road races that don't want to offer prize money to non-residents because local interest is waning in face of the sea of Africans that come under cover of night, take the organizer's money, and leave as quickly as they arrived.
As Pietro Giovannoni said with respect to his city's marathon, "Let's stop using public money to finance the marathon, since the winners are always Africans and foreigners in underpants."
I see no evidence that "Africans in underpants" are in any way crucial to the reputation of the sport the same way that Americans or Europeans are, or have been in cycling. What makes you think that? Is Felix Keny really a household name where you live?
They don't need name recognition, to the watching public they're essentially 'The Kenyans' or 'The Africans'. For that reason, the sport is already a non-event for most people.
What they're doing is hanging onto the last thread of credibility that they can. That 'The Africans' are doing it fairly - and even if it's not interesting to watch, at least it's impressive.
Right, this line I'm going to put into capitals because it seems to be the bit you don't quite understand. KENYA IS NOT DOMINANT BECAUSE OF DOPING, BUSTING A FEW KENYAN DOPERS WILL NOT STOP THEIR DOMINANCE.
You've named a few random positive tests over a long period of time. None of them were particulaly pertinent in terms of uncovering something systemic. If they found a couple of 'Renatos' who were doping their stable, then things would be different. Also, if they knew what was going on behind close doors in Addis too - game over.
trollism wrote:
They don't need name recognition, to the watching public they're essentially 'The Kenyans' or 'The Africans'. For that reason, the sport is already a non-event for most people.
And I'll put this into capitals:
IF FELIX KENY HAS A POSITIVE TEST TOMORROW NO ONE WILL KNOW ABOUT IT.
That's not because of a coverup, but because no one outside of this board would even hear of it. It wouldn't make the headlines at Eurosport or ESPN.
trollism wrote:
What they're doing is hanging onto the last thread of credibility that they can. That 'The Africans' are doing it fairly - and even if it's not interesting to watch, at least it's impressive.
What evidence do you have for this? Please present something beyond your personal opinion that the public opinion is:
1. East Africans are the only clean athletes out there
2. That the casual fan who may catch coverage at Olympic or World Championships would know if an East African runner of even a modest level of success were to test positive.
trollism wrote:
Right, this line I'm going to put into capitals because it seems to be the bit you don't quite understand. KENYA IS NOT DOMINANT BECAUSE OF DOPING, BUSTING A FEW KENYAN DOPERS WILL NOT STOP THEIR DOMINANCE.
And how can you know this without direct knowledge to the extent of the doping you claim is taking place there? You make a statement, but I don't see any evidence to support it.
trollism wrote:
You've named a few random positive tests over a long period of time. None of them were particulaly pertinent in terms of uncovering something systemic. If they found a couple of 'Renatos' who were doping their stable, then things would be different. Also, if they knew what was going on behind close doors in Addis too - game over.
So then what did you mean by "catching 5" would taint the rest? Hyperbole? Did you not really mean that? Why would the tester even go to World and Olympic Champion Ngugi's house and then report the refused test if there is a coverup as you suggest?
All I am seeing are statements without any facts. Is it all conjecture on your part that there are multiple groups actively distributing performance enhancing drugs in East Africa or do you have anything to back this up?
So what you're saying is, you need to see the needles in asses before you believe anything is going on?
That's exactly why none are getting caught. Enough people believe that Kenyans are just too nice to dope.
Well done you.
(By the way, I obviously meant catching 5 in one go, not 5 over 25 years /facepalm)
I talked to my college teacher about steroids in sports. His answer was: "Who cares?"
Horrified wrote:
Some of you should get out a bit - try asking KENYANS if there is doping in Kenya...
Yes, because you'd be garranteed an honist answer, jusst as if youd asked Americanss sprintars if they ever doaped.
Renato Canova wrote:
Today in the afternoon there was in Iten a meeting between the Marathon runners for the Olympic Games, their coaches and the Kenyan responsible, David Letting. For the occasion, there was a German journalist (lady) for a German TV. I came her with my computer asking to translate the full interview of Hajo Seppelts.
At the beginning, the interview was fine. There was only the obvious possibility that also some kenyan athlete coul be doped. But, after, there was the interview with the doctor, that said "I have a great experience in blood doping in this Country".
Sorry, I can't accept something like this, because is absoulutely not possible.
I ask to Seppelts to give the name of the doctor, so he can investigated by the local Kenyan Police (because in any case these substances, or part of them, can be considered drug, and also in Kenya who traffics with them can be charged and go in jail) and, of course, by the specific antidoping Agencies (from IAAF and WADA).
A journalist must understand that an accusation like that the doctor did can provoke a very bad image for a full Country, without any proof, and this can be a big damage for all the athletes clean : ALL THE BEST KENYANS.
I know that the cost of antidoping controls every week is high. But, in the case of a doubt involving a full Nation, I think it's possible for IAAF and WADA to invest money in order to remove stupid ideas.
The full Kenyan Team for Olympics can have about 32/34 athletes. For example, alternating half of them every week, of course in a random way, starting from the beginning of June, we can have about 8-9 weeks, that means a total of about 140-150 tests. This is not very different, as quantity, with what already happens today. I explained that, in spite of what many people thinks without knowing (for that reason I call them IDIOTS), we have any week not less than 10 controls from the WADA officials, and Kenya is the Country in the world with the higher percentage of antidoping tests. In Kenya there is not a National Agency, but doctors of WADA coming from South Africa are here every week. The samples from Kenya go to the lab of Barcelona, every Friday.
So, please, quit to talk bullshits.
What do you think a doctor involved in doping can offer to somebody going to him, obviously, asking for some "aid" ? He can show his greatness in the role saying that he has a wide experience with a lot of athletes in the Country. He's a vendor, and a vendor of doping must be denounced, because in this case the professional secret cant exist.
Also for the other idiots thinking I can hide something because Italian, I can answer I don't think all Germans are Nazi or all Norwegian go to kill 77 people for defending the National values. But, if your way of thinking is that one, I understand because Nazis and killers of 77 people can exist.
AND it turns out Renato was either lying or ignorant....