bruinboy wrote:
Maybe he's just tired, done with all of this but to walk away would be to receive the scorn of the world...so he continues even though he REALLY doesn't want to or have the DESIRE to anymore.
I think this is an excellent theory / assessment. It could well be the case and if he is prone to anxiety or stressing about running, which it seems he is, then ten + years of this would tend to burn you out.
official release. Webb has vaginitas. Its when a man losses his penis and testicles, then grows a vagina. 3:54 is pretty quick for a girl.
Weitzleberg wrote:
You are correct , talent does not go away but physical ability does , you slow down for a variety of reasons , in Webbs case is was over racing , he just plain used it up , all elites reach a point of non improvement and never return to full form. Could have he extended his career with better choices , perhaps , can he recapture greatness , perhaps , will he be ok , sure he will no matter the outcome.
"People, talent does NOT go away. Stop worrying about Webb, he will be just fine."
I like your reply. I'm reading a book called "The Emotional Hostage" which teaches a process called Mental Aptitude Patterning (MAP). The process in how it applies to Webb is that one (Webb) has the physical talent to harness the emotional process in continuing his goals. The caveat, or at least theoretically since Webb is the American Mile record holder does that experience create an emotive hostage scenario in furthering his goals? I only thought of that now knowing that harnessing ones talent by balancing the emotional experience can enliven ones (Webb's) progress. And yes "Stop worrying about Webb, he will be just fine." He will. The detractors will just have to get over it.
Webb needs to let go. I was never an 'elite' runner but with 3:53 1500 and 14:45 5k bests I was decent enough and like a lot of guys at that level, quite serious about my running. Like 'Seen it all before' mentioned, I too woke up one day and that was it. Job, family and lets face it, physical limitations (if I had run 200 miles a week I still wouldnt have been truly 'elite'), well, stick a fork in me, I was done. The big difference between Webb and me, aside from our times, was that I realized I was done. It's ok to pack it in. I ran my races, posted my times, helped my teams. I met many amazing people and easily had the best time of my life. I miss it but like with many things, you have to move on. Webb needs to do just that. Get a an office job at Nike. Do some appearances, some commentating, maybe some consulting or coaching. There is no shame in that. I hope he realizes that soon and I wish him well in whatever his choices.
In the book "Born to Run", the author states that Alan started doing some foot strengthening exercises and his shoe size dropped from size 12 to size 9 due to his arches becoming higher. Maybe his feet are now too short to give optimal leverage now.
Brother I hear ya wrote:
I miss it but like with many things, you have to move on. Webb needs to do just that. Get a an office job at Nike. Do some appearances, some commentating, maybe some consulting or coaching. There is no shame in that. I hope he realizes that soon and I wish him well in whatever his choices.
Why exactly did you, or for that matter does Webb, "have to move on"? I mean I see why you might have moved on...because you weren't making bank off of being a "runner". So that's cool. I don't understand why "fans" tell professional athletes to "move on". Does anyone come into your cubicle (you must be a cubicle) and tell you, "Hey Skip, your TPS reports aren't what they used to be. Time to hang up the pocket protector and find a new day job."
Give this guy, and every other "washed up athlete" the same respect we give the shitty guy at the post office. Let them do their job and then talk bad about them behind their backs. Not on a message board like you're the king S of all that's running. Just go on about your day and quit giving so much of a F about some other dude.
I always thought Webb over pronated when he runs. He hits the ground to hard and and seems flat footed. This loses energy and also causes injuries.
- Mr. Pig Doctor
Stop killing pigs they have higher IQs than some dogs. Eating bacon is a war crime.
If I'm lucky I'll get close to breaking 5 in the mile again but it looks to me like his arm swing is out of rhythm with his step. For him to be swinging his arms so hard he should be going faster, and the energy isn't transferring well through his core and to his feet. It might be counterintuitive to suggest more weight training could help someone who is claimed to be too heavy. However the right strength training program including body weight exercises could get him closer to his former strength/weight ratio.
The curious case of Alan Webb-world-beater, American record holder, enigma.
This is the narrative as I see it: Webb is the most talented miler to come along since Jim Ryun. He runs 3:53 in high school and shows absolute, unadulterated joy in doing so. Rewatch the footage when El G congratulates him: It's Alan Webb as 17-year-old wunderkind, only beginning to grasp just how epic his greatness can be.
Sometime between that moment and the end of his first year at Michigan, it all changed. He suddenly was in a rush. Every workout became a leading indicator. He became too obsessed with day-to-day details and lost sight of the long picture. He would absolutely kill a workout and then expect to run 3:52 that weekend. This is not how running works. He left Michigan before he learned to race and returned to the realtively safety and comfort of his high school coach, who had never trained a talent like Webb before and, in my book, had no business learning on the job with Webb.
Then you have the Webb career, which is a testament both to his immense talent and his lack of racing and coaching prowess: a series of near misses, epic races in rcaes that aren't meaningless but minor. I think his American record his his career in a symbolic nutshell: Empty stadium, all by himself, how the hell could he do that, and why couldn't he do that in the Olympics?
He never found the groove. He could see him, with all his crazy celebrations at the US trials, trying to feel something, somehow make the moment epic. It always struck me as a charade, like he was trying to feel something he didn't. What was missing, in my estimation, was a confidence born of a plan, a long-range vision, a sense of comfort and ease that this was all a build up to something great. Instead, he was too caught up in the moment, adrift with no plan--witness his epic 100 meter charge in the world champs, after which he basically admitted he had no race strategy in mind, and epic coaching failure if there ever was one.
And after years of this, he finally picked up for Oregon, and now back to Virginia. I have no doubt he's running crazy workouts with Andrews that are much better than the racing would show. I have no doubt he'll qualify for the trials and drop something in the 3:30s. But it's too late for glory. That ship sailed after his freshman year at Michigan, in my estimation. If he gone to Oregon then, bought into the system, had a coach who sat down and sketched out a five-year plan for greatness, tied to the cumulative efforts over the span of months and years and not the result of any one individual work out, I think Webb could have been the best US miler ever.
To me, it's a story of a missed opportunity, and how fine the line is between greatness and the occasional brush with greatness.
Look, I've never met the guy, and this is pure speculation beased on what I've observed. But it's my theory, and I'mn sticking to it.
At least he doesn't have TBA
with my gamecock out wrote:
He's tried to train at too intense and high a level for too long. Most high school kids who train like college and pro athletes (as he must have) hit a big wall at some point or another. The great AW is no exception. I'm from Florida, and I saw (and competed against) a kid who ran 1:48, 4:08 (1600), 9:15 (3200) and 15:18 as a senior. He went to college as one of the most touted recruits of that recruiting class, and competed for an SEC team. Four years later, he was struggling to get back to 1:48.
Look at it: Webby had so much success, he was bound to come down eventually. Sad to see, but true.
JF?
sdsdf wrote:
The curious case of Alan Webb-world-beater, American record holder, enigma.
This is the narrative as I see it: Webb is the most talented miler to come along since Jim Ryun. He runs 3:53 in high school and shows absolute, unadulterated joy in doing so. Rewatch the footage when El G congratulates him: It's Alan Webb as 17-year-old wunderkind, only beginning to grasp just how epic his greatness can be.
Sometime between that moment and the end of his first year at Michigan, it all changed. He suddenly was in a rush. Every workout became a leading indicator. He became too obsessed with day-to-day details and lost sight of the long picture. He would absolutely kill a workout and then expect to run 3:52 that weekend. This is not how running works. He left Michigan before he learned to race and returned to the realtively safety and comfort of his high school coach, who had never trained a talent like Webb before and, in my book, had no business learning on the job with Webb.
Then you have the Webb career, which is a testament both to his immense talent and his lack of racing and coaching prowess: a series of near misses, epic races in rcaes that aren't meaningless but minor. I think his American record his his career in a symbolic nutshell: Empty stadium, all by himself, how the hell could he do that, and why couldn't he do that in the Olympics?
He never found the groove. He could see him, with all his crazy celebrations at the US trials, trying to feel something, somehow make the moment epic. It always struck me as a charade, like he was trying to feel something he didn't. What was missing, in my estimation, was a confidence born of a plan, a long-range vision, a sense of comfort and ease that this was all a build up to something great. Instead, he was too caught up in the moment, adrift with no plan--witness his epic 100 meter charge in the world champs, after which he basically admitted he had no race strategy in mind, and epic coaching failure if there ever was one.
And after years of this, he finally picked up for Oregon, and now back to Virginia. I have no doubt he's running crazy workouts with Andrews that are much better than the racing would show. I have no doubt he'll qualify for the trials and drop something in the 3:30s. But it's too late for glory. That ship sailed after his freshman year at Michigan, in my estimation. If he gone to Oregon then, bought into the system, had a coach who sat down and sketched out a five-year plan for greatness, tied to the cumulative efforts over the span of months and years and not the result of any one individual work out, I think Webb could have been the best US miler ever.
To me, it's a story of a missed opportunity, and how fine the line is between greatness and the occasional brush with greatness.
Look, I've never met the guy, and this is pure speculation beased on what I've observed. But it's my theory, and I'mn sticking to it.
Everything except this ---"I have no doubt he'll qualify for the trials and drop something in the 3:30s"
Webb is running the open 800m at the GMU meet this weekend.
Carter was a Loser wrote:
sdsdf wrote:The curious case of Alan Webb-world-beater, American record holder, enigma.
This is the narrative as I see it: Webb is the most talented miler to come along since Jim Ryun. He runs 3:53 in high school and shows absolute, unadulterated joy in doing so. Rewatch the footage when El G congratulates him: It's Alan Webb as 17-year-old wunderkind, only beginning to grasp just how epic his greatness can be.
Sometime between that moment and the end of his first year at Michigan, it all changed. He suddenly was in a rush. Every workout became a leading indicator. He became too obsessed with day-to-day details and lost sight of the long picture. He would absolutely kill a workout and then expect to run 3:52 that weekend. This is not how running works. He left Michigan before he learned to race and returned to the realtively safety and comfort of his high school coach, who had never trained a talent like Webb before and, in my book, had no business learning on the job with Webb.
Then you have the Webb career, which is a testament both to his immense talent and his lack of racing and coaching prowess: a series of near misses, epic races in rcaes that aren't meaningless but minor. I think his American record his his career in a symbolic nutshell: Empty stadium, all by himself, how the hell could he do that, and why couldn't he do that in the Olympics?
He never found the groove. He could see him, with all his crazy celebrations at the US trials, trying to feel something, somehow make the moment epic. It always struck me as a charade, like he was trying to feel something he didn't. What was missing, in my estimation, was a confidence born of a plan, a long-range vision, a sense of comfort and ease that this was all a build up to something great. Instead, he was too caught up in the moment, adrift with no plan--witness his epic 100 meter charge in the world champs, after which he basically admitted he had no race strategy in mind, and epic coaching failure if there ever was one.
And after years of this, he finally picked up for Oregon, and now back to Virginia. I have no doubt he's running crazy workouts with Andrews that are much better than the racing would show. I have no doubt he'll qualify for the trials and drop something in the 3:30s. But it's too late for glory. That ship sailed after his freshman year at Michigan, in my estimation. If he gone to Oregon then, bought into the system, had a coach who sat down and sketched out a five-year plan for greatness, tied to the cumulative efforts over the span of months and years and not the result of any one individual work out, I think Webb could have been the best US miler ever.
To me, it's a story of a missed opportunity, and how fine the line is between greatness and the occasional brush with greatness.
Look, I've never met the guy, and this is pure speculation beased on what I've observed. But it's my theory, and I'mn sticking to it.
Everything except this ---"I have no doubt he'll qualify for the trials and drop something in the 3:30s"
Had me until "If he had gone to Oregon".
I think all this "he missed out on learning how to race" nonsense is exactly that... nonsense.
It doesn't seem to hurt the Africans.
Webb learned how to race... he learned against guys running similar times and with similar talent levels.
He just isn't all that good at it. I don't think racing NCAA meets was going to "teach" him to be much better. I feel like that is a somewhat innate gift. And if it is something you learn, then he had plenty of opportunities between rounds at USATF, WC, Olympics and the tactical European affairs that sometimes pop up.
What I think is interesting is that Webb's best season was the year after putting in a massive base. He ran a ton of strength and distance work, ran the 10k where he beat Ritz, and got hurt. But in the leadup to that 10k, he had done an enormous amount of mileage and strength work as I recall.
Razcko and Webb kind of sweared off all the longer stuff after getting injured if I remember correctly. It was years ago, but I remember reading that Webb said something to the effect of not needing to do that much distance work because he was a miler, and it got him injured.
I don't think its a coincidence that it was after that season of monster base and strength work that he ran all his PRs (again, if memory serves me, it was that next year).
He probably attributed it to the refocus on his speed, but I think it was from the previous year's strength work.
I think 1 of 2 things is going on now:
1) Because of years of injuries and a distaste for over-distance work, Webb has no base any longer and is trying to muscle his way through racing without any strength or aerobic capacity.
2) Maybe every race we've seen him in is the only speed work he has done. Maybe he is running mileage and tempos and so is in decent shape, but has no pop or speed.
I hope this last point is the case. Its possible.
The way I see it, Webb either has NO base at all, or is in the middle of establishing it, and hasn't run faster then 70 seconds other then in races. Despite his talent level, if you haven't run faster then a tempo pace, and you're dog tired, having run a workout in the morning, you're going to not run fast in a race.
Either one is possible.
Oh, and he's still a headcase... which will exacerbate any "problem".
How many great seasons has Webb really had? I count 4 so far.
Webb's career is a testament to the old adage that it is DIFFICULT to be a world-beater in the 1500m run! When was the last time we had one? Jim Ryun some 40+ years ago? Even then, Ryun had flashes of brilliance punctuated by disappointment.
Yes, the glaring inadequacy in Webb's career is that his sporadic brilliance was not reflected in success at the championship level. Even ONE medal at the world level would have silenced much of the criticism.
Still, it is not easy making it happen and Webb was ill-equipped, psychologically, to do so. You can not be the obsessive-compulsive, "type-A" personality it seems, and enjoy consistent success on the big stage. You seem to need a smattering of "I don't give a shit" mixed in with extreme dedication to training and a dash of good luck, to boot.
Look at the typical Kenyan for example. You don't see them throwing two-hour tantrums and muttering angrily to themselves after a sub-par performance. At the end of the day, they shrug their shoulders and take the good with the bad. It is a delicate balance and the psychological mix needs to be right.
Admittedly, you have guys like Coe who were clearly a "type A" personality in many ways but that was apparently offset by other traits enough of the time. I don't claim to know how all of it works but, clearly, Webb had a difficult time bringing all the pieces together on a consistent basis and securing that elusive championship medal.
3:43 at George Mason. Doubling back in the 5K right now.
TK1451 wrote:
3:43 at George Mason. Doubling back in the 5K right now.
No!!! Who is telling the truth??? AHHHHHHHHHH!!!!