How should we develop American distance runners?(Coaches ,jtupper,Tinman,Renata,Malmo,Joe Rubio)Give some suggestions?

good comments by The Lone Runner.

anyway, glad to see this post back up on the front page. tired of looking at all of those weekend posters talking about the stuff that isn't going to move us forward.

more thoughts and interaction here would be great, keep it up guys.

The key to our success is to get online more and talk about how to turn things around. It's so obvious how helpful message boards have been in improving the performance of American distance running. The fact of the matter is what you are getting here is a bunch of has-beens and a couple hundred never-will-bees trying to solve the problem thru talking and discussion, when the real doers are out involved in the action of improving the situation.

The question of this thread was, "how should we develop American distance runners?"

I'm assuming that the question is refering to the development of world class runners and hopefully Olympic medalists etc. If this assumption is correct, than the one thing that has not been mentioned yet is talent. If an athlete does everything "correctly" from a very early age but does not have a certain natural ability or talent then that athlete will never win an Olympic medal. Guys like Ritz, Webb, Meb, Kennedy, Culpepper, etc. have a level of natural ability that most of us could only dream of and, with everything being equal, will always be better than athletes with lesser talent. So ... I think the first step to developing American distance runners is the early identification of athletes with natural ability and only then can we hope to develop these athletes properly to hopefully win some medals.

sumwun say:

>when the real doers are out involved in the action of improving the situation<

Who are these "real doers"? Hansons & Rubio have certainly been contributing more than words.

Its a great topic. However, you've answered your own question by stating the "burn out," scenario. Highly unlikely for these younger kids to see value after the school rapes them of their undeveloped talent.

Be reminded though, running competitively is for those who see the future, and have enough maturity to be objective, having a post scholastic coach availible. Unfortunatly, most of the great coaches are gone. It has become all about nubers for school reputation and recognition. A local highschool in my area has lost quite a few distance runners due to the XC season, then the School XC skate team, now spring has a bunch of burn outs. Its a sorry scenario.

Hodgie-San,

i think, or at least hope, that "someone" was responding to my comment about the "weekend" posters. if not, his comments belong on one of those "other" posts. this is certainly one of the best threads i have read in a while. i hope more than just talk comes out of this.

the best idea is a "meeting of the minds" (coaches, athletes, people who just want to see the sport move forward, etc.). not sure how to make it happen.

off to d3 nationals, hope this post is still on the front page when i return.

Well Read,

No, I wasn't talking about your weekend posters comment. I may have been a little harsh with the first posting, but I think my point is still valid. What good does all this posting really do? I agree that this is one of the best threads in a while, but that's kind of like saying "she is the best looking ugly woman ever".

That's a great idea, a "meeting of the minds". I think we should form a task force to do a study about the possibility of this kind of meeting helping our situation. One thing we defintely need more of in running, thinking.

Hodgie-San,

Of course those guys have done great things for our sport, but do their posts on here really help anything? I see it as a waste of good time and advice. This kind of thread is very popular right after the Boston Marathon finishes every year. What good has all those very similar threads done? This thread will probably get over 100 posts on it, but what good do they do if that's all they are, posts on a message board.

some1 ask:

>

Hodgie-San,

Of course those guys have done great things for our sport, but do their posts on here really help anything? I see it as a waste of good time and advice. This kind of thread is very popular right after the Boston Marathon finishes every year. What good has all those very similar threads done? This thread will probably get over 100 posts on it, but what good do they do if that's all they are, posts on a message board.<

Begs the question; Then why waste YOUR time posting here?

I would still like to know who you believe are the "real doers" as you call them.

I come on this site mainly to get results from races. and I go to the message board to get entertained, NOT to make myself a better runner, or to turn american running around. It would be silly for me to think I could do either on here.

The "real doers" are people that aren't only talking about helping the situation out, but are actually DOING something. Be it training their asses off, coaching (on any level), organizing new clubs, etc. Not the anonymoous jackass on the message board (for example me). Well, I am currently doing 2 of the above, but I'm still an anonymous jackass.

Frankly, I love your site. It has no message board, minimal commentary, only the raw data. Here is what so and so did leading up to running this.... There is nothing new that can be found to make the US better, the answers are there. Guys in the past, like you, have done more with less resources.

Great thread

YOUR Question also provided the answer.You burn them out at College.Too many miles, too soon in a quest for instant results.You have by far the best training facilities in the world,The best finances and probably the best coaches.The only thing lacking is patience.

If you wait 'til a kid is 6 yrs. old you have already wasted 5 years. It's a life-style!

I saw a pic the other day from world x-country in the mid 80's , the lead pack , Steve Jones, C Lopes. I thought , great track runners, great x-country runners and great marathoners in thier day. The pic was from a article talking about the cross over of x-country athletes to running at high levels in all areas of distance competition.

To the point is this thread , what missing today with americans ? The breaking point started when we forgot what it takes to be world class. Its not in the detail of workouts being listed in this thread, it falls back to the mindset of a program that has runners doing what the rest of the world does to be at the level of world class .

Go to the competition , run the euro x-country races as all of the african nations do in prep for track. Run the track races that teach you to run world class ( europe, not stanford or penn or mt.sac) the US races are stepping stones not the end of the line or just to qualify for nationals.

Become internationals not just basking in the glory of first american. Think big, train big and race big. Training out of the comfort of your front door year round is something that does not work to be at world class levels.

So much has been put to the effort of getting a shoe contract or "going pro" or winning race money , somewhere along the line we forgot what the end goal was in the quest being the best. We have to get beyond the idea its just a phase in american running , the world is getting faster , we are not as a whole.

Bottom line , develop alternatives to get US runners back to world class levels.

Alternatives to just college running.

Training camps here and in other parts of the world to learn , condition and understand what the rest of the world does.

Race internationally

Open up x-country here ( nationals ) to internationals , note in the 70's and 80's there were some great races with some of the worlds best in our own nationals.

Think Big !

this one needs a bumpin'

Teach them to move and learn coordination as kids. Gradually increase aerobic running in H.S. wth drills and some sprint trainng. College increase aerobic system and develop a racer mentality. Post collegiate take it to a much higher leve. Support a wide group of athletes so many talented Marathoners can take the time to develop. Always strengthen muscles specifically so there workload can be increased. Elite groups that can offer support.

Joe Rubio wrote:

I don't know why I'm included in this topic seeing as I haven't developed anyone into a world beater. I'll step onto the soapbox though cause I always have an opinion on something.

We didn't have a system in place during our best years, so I'm probably in the minority thinking it's not the system per se that's flawed, it's the expectations of many athletes that can use a lift. I get the feeling that many of the current American kids don't think they can beat the foreigners or at the very least make significant improvements in their race times to get competitive so they quit. They need to believe they can get better and sincerely want to do it, that's job #1. Is that USATF's job or a coach's job? In my opinion no, it's starts with the athlete.

I kind of disagree with this because, though not having a strong system after college worked alright for Americans in the past, things have changed and I think America needs to change in this regard. The African countries have strong systems in place for developing their distance runners and I think that we also need to do this in order to be competitive on the world stage.

I can't believe this didn't stay on the first page...very good thread.

bump

Lots of running from a very young age....emphasis on the aerobic system and keep it fun...let the kids develop and take the long term and patient approach....limit speed stuff and anaerobic work and only do in small amounts until more mature!