PAUL TERGAT Vs. MICHAEL JOHNSON; WHAT'S YOUR VERDICT?

Nothing what you say is reasonable. Your 1st two sentneces are quite possibly the dumbest thing ever said on let's run. Based on your "logic" anyone not running full speed is jogging; therefore, the person with the fastest "full speed" wins.

That's why 100M runners don't dominate all events. By your logic, Asafa Powell, given his superior leg speed, would kill everyone at any disance. Cuz, of course, if he's not running 9.79, then he must be "jogging."

So, follow me here. I'll mimic your stupidity. If 11 second 100's are jogging, then 1:38 for 800 is feasable, so 3:20 for the mile is within reach, hell 6:58 for 3000 is a maybe! so ... Ridiculous.

Roger Black ran 1:50 for 800m and was a full second slower than MJ over 400m. So MJ, you would expect, would run 1:48 except he is more of fast twitch kinda guy compared to Black. I'm guessing Black wasnt in top shape for his 1:50 tho. I cant see MJ failing to break 1:47 if he'd done it in 96.

You guys really dont give MJ enough credit. This is not some 'avergage' 400 guy moving up that sucks. This is MICHAEL JOHNSON. Do you guys realize how hard he trains!? You really think he doesnt run over 600m in practice?? Have you read his book?? If high school kids, who run 9mpw can run 150 in the 800, you really think MJ would have a problem, as hard as he trains? This is what you guys are not realizing, that dude, could have run anything he wanted to, he was that talented. And to go with his talent...noone trained harder than he did. And you guys just think his legs are going to fall off after 600m.

Here is one of his wk's for the 400. 12x200, 1min rest, start in 32, drop a second each repeat. Oh yeah, his legs sure will turn to toast after 600m at a simple easy comfortable pace to him.

Guys have to get your head out your ass. This guy could have set a WR at 800 if he wanted to.

Aside from your last sentence, I agree with this. Had he trained MJ could run a decent 800, but why would he? He's the best 200 and best 400 runner ever. It's not a matter of him afraid to be embarrased in the 800. I don't think he could set the WR but he'd be ok, certainly against Tergat. Tergat just doesn't have the wheels for an 800 with MJ.

I'd go with Tergat. He's a 7:28, 12:49, 26:27 guy and probably 3:50'sh in the mile. A 400M runner is in a different world on that 2nd lap, while Goucher (not in Tergat's league) has run an early season 1:49, during 5K training. MJ effectively holding up his sprint for another 60-65 seconds is not a sure thing. Plus, far as I'm concerned, he gave up against Bailey & Greene and would give up again in a race he had a real chance of losing. These rarely happened in the 200M/400M.

But the argument for MJ, is that HS'er Obea Moore ran 1:49 himself w/o training for it (that I know of).

You don't get the sarcasm? Did I not lay it on thick enough?

Tergatian wrote:

There is a reason why MJ never raced an 800. It's also the same reason why he would race the 100....and the same reason why Webb would race the 5000/10000 but not the 400.

Top level runners do not want to embarass themselves on the world stage. They race what they're good at and occasionally race outside their comfort zone (think Bekele in a mile). MJ in a top level 800 would be a total embarassment.

Wariner is no exception. He has already stated in an interview that he will never race the 800, but he often races the 200. A lot of people here just don't grasp how different the 800 is from the 400.

But doesn't that reasoning also apply to Tergat? Aren't you missing the entire point of the question? We're taking two athletes who are world class in their respective events, and facing them off in an event that neither specializes in.

hell if god gave you a choice..

A. Be a world class athlete who runs about 45sec makes lots of money and wins medals.

B. Be a world class athlete who has to run all out for over two hours..get beat by abunch of nobodies cause someone steal your water bottle..

who the hell would ever be a marathon runner?

But Paul Tergat is better suited physiologically for the 800 than the 400.

To the poster that mentioned MJ working hard - well, Bekele, Geb and Tergat work hard. All the hard work in the world wouldn't enable them to beat MJ at 600, just like all the hard work wouldn't help MJ in an 800 or above against those guys.

also, I was responding more to the people that think MJ could run a sick 800 than if he could beat Tergat.

MJ is a bulky 19.32 200m guy who moves up to run 43 in the 400m. Think about that.

Mtn Dew wrote:

You don't get the sarcasm? Did I not lay it on thick enough?

Sorry bro. Maybe I'm the d*ck. I was so fired up after your 1st paragraph I didn't read the whole thing. Sad thing is, some of the posters on this thread would agree with that line of thinking.

Dumb and Dumberer wrote:

Sorry bro. Maybe I'm the d*ck. I was so fired up after your 1st paragraph I didn't read the whole thing. Sad thing is, some of the posters on this thread would agree with that line of thinking.

Yes, I know, I was just taking it to the extreme. MJ would have to train a lot for hte 800 to get under 1:50 while Tergat could have run under 1:50 at his peak w/o any specific workouts per se.

It seems that the 400-800 is more often attempted by women than by men (though the 800-1500 is more common for either sexes). Jearl Miles Clark has PRs of 49.4 and 1:56.4 -- which is pretty wicked fast. Meredith Rainey (1:57 800) when she was at Harvard raced the 400, and sometimes the 200 and 100! Ana Quirot also a 400m runner. I would say for an 800m female, you need sub-51 speed to be word class.

Anyway, I agree that MJ would take Tergat, Geb, Bekele -- any 10k over 800.

Mtn Dew made a good parody of the common line of thought on this board, that pure speed is the most useful asset even in distance running. People get so caught up in the "he has great leg speed" line of thinking that they somehow forget how important other things, like aerobic strength, are in any race 800m and up.

i think you mean "aerobic capacity" such as vo2 max.

"aerobic strength" is the same thing as "aerobic power" and is basically what transforms into your kick in a mid-distance race; but in this case, we would refer to Tergats high "aerobic capacity" because thats the edge he would have on johnson.

johnson would have the anaerobic advantage as far as kick goes, but Tergat would own his between 500-700 meters because he would so much more smooth due to his high aerobic capacity. i doubt he (Tergat) wouldnt even enter the lactic zone until 550 meters, whereas johnson right after 400meters.

I'm pretty sure tergat would win. You can't argue that johnson has such a quick 400m time a 55 or so would be a jog for him, he still wouldn't have the endurance to keep up another lap at that pace. I doubt johnson would go much under 2 minutes without 800m specific training for a long period of time.

Everyone seems to be underestimating Paul Tergat. Tergat split a 3:58 mile in a 3k, which is worth a 1:47 800 in Hungarian points.

Tergat's best bet would be to continually wind up the pace rather than going flat out from the start ie

28, 27, 26, 25 for the 200 splits - 1:46

No way MJ beats Tergat. Somebody mentioned Bekele - he would slaughter MJ