German Fernandez 13th in 4:17.81

you are certainly welcome to your own preferences and distastes for types of races but that doesn't mean they are shared by all or that the runners are pussys because the race doesnt go off in a way that you find entertaining

my view is that every type of race, when repeated constantly, is boring...if every race were a strung out time trial id get sick of watching it, and if every race was a 1300 jog and finishing sprint that would be boring too...what makes the sport exciting is the various strengths and weaknesses different runners have and the different tactics they try to use those to get to the line first anyway they can

my personal opinion is that a tension filled pace escalation throughout the race with crowds, position jockeying, spikes, elbows, shoes flying off, and a furious finish with everyone is contention than watching people run single file for 1500 meters and that is no better or worse than yours

quite possibly the greatest 1500 race ever was the 04 athens olympics pitted the 2 fastest men of all time at the distance for a nose hair finish...that race went out in 2:00

your not going to appreciate this sport if you cant learn to appreciate a tactical race...

I am not claiming that it wasnt a very stupid tactic for a lot of runners in that field...but neither is trying to run away from a 3:32 guy, and a couple guys got a pretty serious scalp from manzano

There is a difference between tactical and what just happened. Never said they were being pussy's either. I like races with lots in the mix, and tactical races. I'm not sure how you can call this one tactical though. It was completely without tactics.

Logic is simple, if you can't win give up. SO because probs about 95% of the people running NCAA will never win, They should give up. is that consistent?

the tactics involved in a race like this are insane...

think about it, its not just about having the fastest sprint, you have to be positioned near the front at the right time, cover any moves before its too late, not be boxed in, stay on your feet in traffic...

and you have to do all this while running in a crowd of guys who are all essentially fresh from the slow pace

this was the definition of a tactical race, its just that no one used a tactic that you found appealing...

Joe Mama wrote:

Logic is simple, if you can't win give up. SO because probs about 95% of the people running NCAA will never win, They should give up. is that consistent?

where in the hell did I ever say "if you can't win, give up?"

kyle miller was not winning that race today, it had a 1:43 guy and a 3:32 guy so no matter what the tactics were someone likely had a way to beat him, however he finished 3rd defeating an olympic finalist

hes a 1:48, 4:00 guy and he ran 4:14...and Im pretty sure he, his coach, and everyone in the sport with some sense realizes that he ran a fantastic race...

the goal of track is to use whatever tactics you can to place as well as possible (maybe i limited it to winning in earlier posts but i didnt think it took too much of an inference to realize I didnt mean "if you can't win give up")...

No, the tactics employed during this race were dumb. Watching the race video, I see one lucky man and 15 stupid ones.

I don't understand where this notion of tactical=slow came from. There's a huge difference between a three lap jog with a sprint at the end and an honestly paced race.

Posters on this board (especially hmmmmmmmmmmm) seem to think that you either have a race where you jog (in a huge pack), or you're time trialing in a line. Believe it or not, there are other options.

German, yo need to do blood transfusion now. EPO is easy to detect. Go back to the oldie ways. Yo run fast again, trust me. Sporties is all drugies and more drugies.

all out one hundred wrote:

No, the tactics employed during this race were dumb. Watching the race video, I see one lucky man and 15 stupid ones.

I don't understand where this notion of tactical=slow came from. There's a huge difference between a three lap jog with a sprint at the end and an honestly paced race.

Posters on this board (especially hmmmmmmmmmmm) seem to think that you either have a race where you jog (in a huge pack), or you're time trialing in a line. Believe it or not, there are other options.

they werent dumb for samoei...

obviously there are other options and those options produce the same results as this one...a winner, a 2nd placer, a 3rd placer, a 4th placer, and someone waaaay back in last, and no records

Ill agree that manzano, a 3:32 guy was dumb to let the race go this slowly and would have been better served by making a move early (maybe 600 to go or something)...but kivuva making an early move like that would have been just as dumb as manzano waiting around as long as he did

thats how every race is, sometimes the pace favors one type of runner, sometimes it favors another...let me guess, you go outkicked a lot when you were running?

I respect your opinion 100% and I see what you’re saying. But can you please explain to me the meaning of this race? Were there championships on the line? Did this race guarantee spots for nationals (NCAA or USA or Worlds)? This race, according to Leo in his post race interview, was a part of his training and meant nothing. I don’t know about the other guys in this race and what this meant to them, but I doubt they walked away having a piss poor mindset about this race thinking that their season is going down the drain.

Why I’m defending German is because of how the majority of idiots/haters on this thread have no common sense about running let alone race tactics. They all think he’s the next Alan Webb or whoever else by saying how he was amazing coming out of high school, but now is a possible candidate of being a wash-up-has-been. Obviously no one pays attention to the phrase “patience is a virtue”. Again he’s young and has plenty of time to grow/learn. I will say it’s pretty damn silly for German to keep running poorly/dropping out of races because of shoe issues, but losing your shoe or having your shoe cause you to run poorly does NOT determine how good of a shape you’re in. If this race went out as fast as it should have and if German ran a 4:10ish or slower WITH no shoe issue while everyone else was 4:05 or better, then yes I would agree that something is wrong down in Stillwater, but I’m not counting him out because of his bad luck with his shoes. I’ll wait till Big 12s to see what he does. To add on, it’s pretty hard to sprint at the end of a race when your shoe is halfway off your foot, just saying.

Leave it to letsrun to make a training effort look like the end of the career of one of the best middle distance runners the US has seen in a long time.

your over it

dreambigorgohome wrote:

Leave it to letsrun to make a training effort look like the end of the career of one of the best middle distance runners the US has seen in a long time.

hmmmmmmmmmmmm wrote:

kyle miller was not winning that race today, it had a 1:43 guy and a 3:32 guy so no matter what the tactics were someone likely had a way to beat him, however he finished 3rd defeating an olympic finalist

hes a 1:48, 4:00 guy and he ran 4:14...and Im pretty sure he, his coach, and everyone in the sport with some sense realizes that he ran a fantastic race...

the goal of track is to use whatever tactics you can to place as well as possible (maybe i limited it to winning in earlier posts but i didnt think it took too much of an inference to realize I didnt mean "if you can't win give up")...

...who said Kyle Miller had a bad race? I think he and his coach are very happy with how he raced, in both the 15 and the 8.

The runners and their coaches who have mile PB's 5 or more seconds faster than Kyle Miller should be a little worried.

For those who were asking why this race is embarrassing: It was slow. Very, very slow, with no dramatic moves by any of the superstars in the line-up. If a non-running fan watched this race, the closest he would get to seeing a runner he recognizes would be when German tried to make a move, but lost his shoe. I don't think anyone can possibly say this is good for the sport.

thirty-two wrote:I don't think anyone can possibly say this is good for the sport.

Did this race need to elevate the sport? Did this race have delusions of grandeur? It's early April. Can't you just let a windy small-time race with a few marquee names be itself?

Drifting back then surging forward, passing on the turn, leading then wilting, getting out kicked in last 100m,

GF is a talented guy, but his head was not in the race. We all know what its like to have things "click", and a bad race is still pretty good.

He looks flat.

thirty-two wrote:

...who said Kyle Miller had a bad race? I think he and his coach are very happy with how he raced, in both the 15 and the 8.

The runners and their coaches who have mile PB's 5 or more seconds faster than Kyle Miller should be a little worried.

For those who were asking why this race is embarrassing: It was slow. Very, very slow, with no dramatic moves by any of the superstars in the line-up. If a non-running fan watched this race, the closest he would get to seeing a runner he recognizes would be when German tried to make a move, but lost his shoe. I don't think anyone can possibly say this is good for the sport.

no one did...that was in response to some saying my arguments meant you couldnt accomplish anything unless you win

and a race style you find non-entertaining is not the same thing as it being embarassing, I guarantee a non-runner finds this race more entertaining than a strung out time trial decided by 800

Mongolian Barbeque wrote:

Drifting back then surging forward, passing on the turn, leading then wilting, getting out kicked in last 100m,

GF is a talented guy, but his head was not in the race. We all know what its like to have things "click", and a bad race is still pretty good.

He looks flat.

agreed, rough day

my 2 cents wrote:

If this race went out as fast as it should have and if German ran a 4:10ish or slower WITH no shoe issue while everyone else was 4:05 or better, then yes I would agree that something is wrong down in Stillwater, but I’m not counting him out because of his bad luck with his shoes.

The shoe excuse was used for the 4:13 indoor, the DNF at NCAA 3000m, and now this 13th and 4:17 outdoors. If an excuse is needed, shoes will be kicked off.

Some of you guys are being downright ridiculous. The purpose of a race is to race. If the goal was to get the perfect effort/pacing in unless there is a championship on the line then every athlete would just practice until the championship meet (and qualifiers). Our sport doesn't work like that. Unless you are juiced to the gills (ala Ramzi) you don't just show up to the national meet and perform well without getting some race experience in. Learning when to go, how to run in a pack, what works for you, and what doesn't are all parts of racing. The time itself has no bearing on the quality of the race.

However, if you break down the splits its a little more interesting, because a 55.high winning off a 3:18 is something pretty much every 4:05 miler could do (assuming they started moving with 400m to go). Now maybe they didn't move until 200m to go and Samoei busted a 24 point (which would be impressive). I probably should watch the race.