Deep South Runners: How do you keep 60-80m/w in the Summer

I have lived my entire 30 years in the deep south (lower Alabama) and I have to agree with Malmo on this. The best way I've found to get in miles is to just suck it up and do doubles. I will typically run 4 miles at 5am 3 or 4 days a week, then everyday after work run an easy 8 miler (around 6pm). On the weekends, I'll run 10 on Saturday morning and 16 on Sunday morning starting no later than 6am. Most of this running is very slow and I have to rotate through 3 different pair of shoes just to keep a dry pair. It sucks but on that first cool day (usually in October) its like you've died and gone to heaven.

malmo - I was trying to take the sun angle out of the equation. I've done morning runs later in the summer when the sun doesn't rise until after 6 AM. Even in the dark, I still find the runs tougher than IN THE SUN at around say 6 PM when it is obviously warmer than 6 AM. With the dew point staying (roughly) the same, the relative humidity is lower in the afternoon. I fully understand the difference between dewpoint and relative humidity.

I am trying to find a reason for why it is possible I find it easier to run in the evening/late afternoon. Maybe it's because it is normally windier in the afternoon. That could possibly explain it as the sweat could get blown off my skin instead of sitting there trapped and not evaporating. What do you think of that theory? I hope you understand heat transfer for this one.

Brian wrote:

Not kidding about 80 degree dewpoints, though. I am sure growing up in Maryland, you have seen this as well. I have run in Savannah, GA and Charleston, SC when the dewpoint was 80 as well as in the city with the worst weather in the country - Omaha, NE. Living in Omaha is like spending winters in Bismarck, ND and summers in Savannah, GA, without ever leaving the comfort of home. And it is windy year round (the wind has been gusting over 40mph for the last 24 hours here). One day in Omaha, I was out on my front porch in the evening when the temp was 99, the dewpoint was 80, and the wind was gusting over 30 mph.

Brian, I don't doubt that you are not kidding, but that doesn't mean that it happens very often. 80º dew points are rare, even in Charleston SC, where it usually happens 2-3 times per year.

While Omaha does have dew points over 75 5-10 times each year (Mombasa hot) 80º DP occurs only about once every 5 years or so. Washington DC gets over 75º DPs fewer times than Omaha, but rarely over 77º.

For all it's reputation, Hotlanta rarely sees a 75º dewpoint, the highs each Summer tend to be mostly in the 70-74º range. But Atlanta sits on an plateau at about 900' elevation, keeping it above much of the muggy weather.

I have a hard time seeing in the dark. It's not bad seeing where I'm going as long as there are street lights here and there. But some places are dark and I've stumbled on the pavement or on rocks a few times.

Are there any special glasses I could wear to see better in the dark? Do those yellow glasses help at all?

If you have to run in the sun, do you wear a sweat band or a hat?

evening runner, you can't take the Sun angle out of the equation, the Sun's effect is part of the physical world.

As far as your heat transfer theory goes, when you are running in the shade or the dark, you are simply not building up near as much heat as you would be with the Sun on your face. When you stand out in the Sun, not doing any exercise at all, you can feel the Sun's radiant energy warming your body. Where to you feel hottest in the Sun? ..your head and your shoulders. Where to you sunburn? .. your head and your shoulders. When you are running in the Sun you are building up head in two places: 1) internally and 2) externally (the Sun). While heat dissipation does occur though your exposed skin's surface area, most of it builds up, and dissipates, through your upper body surfaces, specifically the head and shoulders. When you run in the shade, or dark, or with the Sun's altitude very low in the sky, the only heat that needs to be dissipated by the body is that which is being generated internally.

In the winter you wear a hat to conserve the transfer of heat from the body to the air. In the Summer you wear a hat for the opposite reason -- to reflect the build up of heat in the body coming from the Sun.

Your perception is a psychological quirk, not a physical phenomenon.

I'm going to cut Brian a little slack. Technically the dewpoint can exceed the temperature but rarely if ever happens at ground level. "Supersaturation" can occur, most frequently within the updrafts of a thunderstorm. Fun fact of the day.

Makes us tough, but it's a nice system we can implement too. I went to high school in Galveston County, southeast Houston. Train in the summer evenings when the sun's down but still in the 90's. Then when school starts, you start training in the mornings when it's even cooler. Then when fall and that first wave of cool air come, it's like being shot out of a canon. That's why you see a dramatic drop in times at the end of HS cross season here, more so than you normally would associate with peaking for the post season.

Did you major in meteorology, by chance?

altoroad wrote:

Did you major in meteorology, by chance?

No, this is 7th grade science class that everyone should understand.

Unforu

altoroad wrote:

No one runs at mid afternoon in summer in the deep south.

Unfortunately that isn't true. I run D1 xc in South Carolina, and our repeats days (5x2000m) and 5-7 mile tempos are on monday and wednesay at 3:30 pm. Yes, I hate my coach

Bagration wrote:

Unforu

altoroad wrote:

No one runs at mid afternoon in summer in the deep south.

Unfortunately that isn't true. I run D1 xc in South Carolina, and our repeats days (5x2000m) and 5-7 mile tempos are on monday and wednesay at 3:30 pm. Yes, I hate my coach

We didn't start afternoon runs until 4, but that was D3, so we needed the extra half-hour.

I'm 40 and my goal races are typically marathons, so I usually run 60-80 mpw in singles only here in Florida. Here is some stuff I do that works for me...

1. I run when the sun is not out, mostly at night after work.

2. Track work is at night too, luckily the track is usually lit or enough ambient light to see.

3. Group runs start around 5:45 AM and we just enjoy the suffering when the sun comes up.

4. I don't pay as much attention to paces but more to effort. It's not ideal, but mortals slow down in the heat and humidity. You're still working hard.

5. Hydration is 7 days a week, even days you take off. Not saying overdo it, just don't get behind out of laziness.

6. Sometimes I do the long run on a treadmill at the gym.

I run on 13.5 miles at noon in south Florida often due to my schedule. It sucks! but i think running in the extreme heat and humidity makes you stronger. pace slows from morning runs considerably and when it really starts getting warm out I feel like I come close to heat exhaustion.

Its not ideal because the stress response from the body is significant and messes with my sleep, appetite, etc

I generally start my runs around 10:00-11:00 at night. Morning runs are more like mid-afternoon runs, and take place in an air-conditioned gym on a torturous machine sometimes referred to as a treadmill...However, this schedule may not be conducive to individuals who enjoy holding a job.

In Atlanta, the dewpoint is typically high 60's in July. Omaha, though, has more than 5 days with the dewpoint in the mid 70's in the summer, at least since I have been here. And in Atlanta, you tend not to have your highest air temperature days (high 90's-100) on the highest dewpoint days. Those absurdly hot days tend to have lower than average dewpoints. Omaha is definitely more humid than Atlanta for at least a 6-8 week period mid-summer, and I would never have believed it before I moved here. The day I unpacked my UHAUL upon arrival, the actual air temperature was 98 degrees and the dewpoint was 72 and the wind was gusting to 35 mph. Luckily, it is usually mid-late June before 70 degree dewpoints get to be a daily thing and it starts becoming less frequent in late August.

What makes Omaha so brutal in July is higher dewpoints than Atlanta, higher actual temperatures than Atlanta, and no shade. I have two places with shade - a rail trail where they have left a strip of trees in the bluffs on the Iowa side of the river and a 6 mile mountain bike trail loop in the riparian forest on the Missouri River floodplain. Other than that, not shade at all.

When I first moved here, I reckoned "I am from Georgia - how can the midwest possibly rival the South for warm humid summers" God was I stupid.

One thing Malmo isn't taking into account about Omaha (not a criticism, he would have no way of knowing if he didn't live here) is the dewpoint can vary alot within town owing to proximity to the river and how much rain we have gotten/how much standing water is on the floodplain and your proximity to corn/soybean fields. I live just barely inside the levee and alot of my runs cross the levee to the floodplain and when there is a ton of standing water from flooding and when farmers are irrigating (and the normal moisture coming off the corn), the dewpoint on the floodplain cornfields can be absurdly high. When I leave the house at 6am in July to run and the temp at the airport is 74 and the "official" dewpoint is 70, but then I cross the levee onto the floodplain into fog, I know the local dewpoint is higher (or perhaps the temp a bit lower, or both). I drive to work often in July in fog until I get a bit away from the river and when crossing into Nebraska from my house in Iowa, the interstate bridge high above the river is clear, but the floodplain below is shrouded in fog.

One thing relative humidity is good for more than dewpoint is farmers because it is a way of knowing how quickly irrigation water/soil moisture will evaporate. You conserve water if you irrigate when the relative humidity is high, rather than when the dewpoint is high. If it is 40 and the dewpoint is 40, water won't evaporate as fast as when the temp is 80 and the dewpoint 60, even though the latter scenario is more humid in an absolute sense. Farmer's like to know about relative humidity for timing of various farming duties.

75 in the morning in july??? Try running in miami with the lowest temperature even in the dark from may-september being 80 plus humidity! 75 is a godsend during the summer down here. I run 75-85 mpw in singles towards the end of the summer and I just have to wake up early (6 am) so I can get most of the run done before the sun starts to come up. Also try to find as much shade as possible and drink alot!

Malmo, you hit the nail on the head about the dew point being the main culprit behind the toughness of those summer runs. In central Florida the dew point at any time of day does not fall below 70 from mid-May through early October which makes it tough to run due to the cumulative effects of dehydrating conditions for days, weeks and months on end. During decades of encountering these conditions I have found that doubles of 5-7 miles twice per day work well with a long run that tops out at around 15-16 miles. I find it very important to weigh myself before and after running, especially long runs and to drastically increase ny fluid intake so that I don't lose more than 2% of my body weight. I have found that it is difficult for me to run even 15-16 miles because I sweat a pound (pint) per mile in the Florida summers at any time of day. Last summer we had dew points that were about three degrees above normal for a long period of time (76-78 rather than 73-75) and I could really tell a difference in the difficulty of running in those conditions.