RunningTimes : The rise, fall and rebirth of Josh McDougal

Appreciated the article - and, yeah, I certainly would have liked to peruse a full two days worth of your thoughts and perceptions instead of the 3K limit. (RW doesn't seem to have that particular limitation on their profiles.) Being a geezer runner in Lynchburg, I diligently follow the sport and have enjoyed watching McDougal over the years. His "demise" was indeed premature; your piece articulated the contributing factors. Again, thanks. (Hope you enjoyed the city for two days... it certainly has a history.)

What is wrong if Ryan Hall lets everyone know his trust in God. He is just trying to be a good example...I would do the same thing if I were in his shoes.

OK, I'm not an idiot, it's ok for people to disagree. For example, I don't think you're an idiot because you disagree with me, I think you're an idiot because you call people idiots because they disagree with you.

Now, Bob Kennedy was known for his low mileage in HS and was a great HS runner. Went to college, increased it and got better. As a pro he decided that he couldn't compete with the best in the world on 90 mpw, increased to over 100 and broke 13:00.

Do too much mileage as a youth and you'll burn out and/or have nowhere to improve because you're doing the mileage- you're at your peak.

What would JMcD have run in HS if he was going to classes and running 40-50 mpw? He may not have been the progidy he was.

He MAY have gone to college, gradually increased his mileage and developed to the level he was at when he disappeared.

And yet he did continue to improve in college, so I'm not getting your point. You seem to be assuming that improvement is all about the mileage number, but in reality it's more about the accumulated mileage. All other things being equal, a runner who sustains 90 mpw from high school through college will be better than one who takes years to get there.

After reading the article, I can only conclude that he must not be 100% healthy, otherwise he would come back.

Yeah, I know it's implied that he is healthy now, but it is incomprehensible that someone with his talent and drive would not attempt a comeback at this stage in his life. He must know deep down that he still has health issues.

I feel pretty confident in saying Josh didn't burn himself out physically. If anything, I'd be willing to wager that right before the onset of his symptoms, he was probably feeling as fit and healthy as he's ever felt in his life. I can say this because since the fall of 2006, I have dealt with pretty much the same symptoms as Josh. I was in the best shape of my life and felt 100% healthy when my leg issues began. For reference, I was running 70-80 miles with 3 double days per week, so I doubt the 130 mpw on singles is what did it. Reading the Running Times article on him is like reading about myself. I even slept flat on my back on the floor for a year just as Josh did.

With that said, I'm sure Josh is feeling or has felt burnt out mentally. Dealing with the tightness and coordination loss in your leg is a greater stress mentally than it is physically. It's hard to explain, but for almost 2 years I willed myself to continue running and it took everything within me to drag my leg on my runs. After awhile I couldn't take it anymore, so I quit running completely for over 2 years.

When Josh says he doesn't know if putting in the work for 2 years is worth it or not, he most likely isn't referring only to getting back in shape, but also to putting in countless hours of daily rehab to get his leg completely healthy, if that's even possible. Based on my own experience, I completely understand why he's hesitant to attempt a full comeback.

I agree with mlbfan's statements. Anyone who is more curious about Josh's condition should read the "loss of coordination" thread. I also doubt it was the high mileage and singles that caused the injury....Was Josh's right leg the problematic one?

Maybe he should go back to sleeping on the floor?

When I have back or neck trouble, I sometime sleep on the floor. There's some logic in thinking I should actually be sleeping on the floor all the time if this is what makes me feel better when I have a problem. Really, I just need a firmer mattress, but that would be too logical...

hold the phone wrote:

Each person has to make that decision on their own -- not with the help of some judgmental, self-righteous prick who thinks you've got "Peter Pan syndrome" if you don't pursue exactly the same goals that he does.

I think you're mostly right, but sometimes people do look back and think: I wish I had stopped running and started my "real" career a few years earlier. I know I do.

I don't think it's the worst thing in the world for him to hear that quitting now might be the right choice. It's his choice but an outside perspective helps (just like you saying you don't regret it helps).

What is the significance of it happening in one's right vs. left leg?

Perhaps the repetition of always going the same direction around the track?

I'm not really convinced that running on the track is the cause, but I guess it could make an underlying problem worse. I think it's Josh's right leg that is affected, and my right is affected as well; however, there are others on this board who deal with it in their left leg. It could be due to a rotated pelvis or a rotation somewhere in the spine. Or maybe it's from his scoliosis. I have a mild case as well, but who knows.

Runn - You are a complete idiot throwing around terms like 'burn out'.

ACCUMULATED MILEAGE AND INCREASING THE SPEED OF YOUR QUALITY SESSIONS. (Read this over and over again).

Mcdougals injury wasn't a stress fracture over and over again.

This loss of coordination injury can and does happen to people on 35 miles a week and 140 miles a week. Read mlbfan24 post, then go read the loss of coordination thread.

Some people believe a loss of coordination problem can occur in the left leg from running around a track. I, like mlbfan, have experienced a loss of coordination problem in my right leg. My injury has been very mild compared to the experiences of some others.

Personally, I believe this problem is related to posture, and the way one moves and holds the body throughout daily life. For some, poor patterns of movement during "everyday activities" can carry through to running and begin to seriously affect performance. Just my take personally.

He's lost it. and what is "it"? Well my friends....

It's the eye of the tiger, it's the thrill of the fight rising up to the challenge of our rivals....

Ouch! Mom said that....

Anyone know where i can see the "legendary" logs?

+1

Two things. First is the McDougal take on faith. This may sound a little bit off but as a believer I respect Josh McDougal's approach to his faith a bit more than Ryan Hall. With that said, I disagree with Latter calling Josh's approach "more secular". I would simply say Josh is more grounded. McDougal always mentions his desire to glorify God through his running, and often mentions "the Lord" while referencing his God. McDougal is homeschooled and a product of a Christian University. Hall's over-charismatic approach is wildly atmospheric and at times detached, yet his path was public school and a worldly-academic Stanford. Certainly a pointed comparison seeing it is our secular society that labels homeschoolers as "fanatics".

Second. The one aspect of the article that I can't quite figure is where Latter mentions (while referencing Sam and Tolsma) that Josh never "toed the line". I can't see why he would bank on a decision to pursue competitive racing again unless he does toe the line. Anyone coming back from an injury knows it is about small steps, recovering and getting back to something. Josh started competing in the Junior Olympics at 10. He didn't start out with a NCAA XC Championship. If he is running 70mpw, I find it hard to believe that he won't get back into racing, even if it's less competitive. Why did he as a homeschooler enter all those track meets?

Nobody likes to read an unfinished story...which makes it all difficult to swallow.

Josh was just polite in speaking of Jimmerson.He ran like crap in 2006, when he adopted Jimmerson's taper that he used at Stanford. He forgot all about that in 2007, when he did run 115 miles the week of NCAA's including 12 the day before on the course. You all know what that result was.