Ryun VS Scott (best US miler ever)

Maree's 1500m AR is far superior to any of Scott's times. Does that make Maree better?

Ryun is way better. As everyone said" two mile WRs and one 1500 WR. Olympic silver vs. no Olympic silver. Crappy tracks, crappy training, crappy shoes, no rabbits, no competition. He was running time trials in 3:51 with 53 last laps. I honestly believe that Ryun is possibly the most talented miler who ever lived. Without the aid of drugs, I think he could run 3:40 today with the better training, tracks, competition, etc. He ran a 22 220y in HS. His speed was insane.

You can't just compare runners of different eras just on a time basis because that is stacking the deck. As times progress, the more recent runner will always come out on top. And, as far as longevity, Scott's is impressive, but saying that Scott is best because of his quantity is like saying Emitt Smith is the best running back of all time because he is the all-time rushing leader. You have to compare runners against the standards and times of their day, doing otherwise is comparing apples to oranges.

It's easy to look at an athlete of today, or even of the past 10 or 20 years, and think they are automatically better than athletes from 30 or 40 years ago. It happens in every sport...how many young people think Jim Brown could go up against Emmitt Smith...heck, how many young kids even know who Walter Payton is? Were Montana, Elway or Marino automatically better than Unitas, Bradshaw or Starr or are they just more fresh in our minds? Was Jordan the best basketball player ever? Perhaps...but a lot of people don't ever factor guys like West, Oscar or Sam Jones into the argument at all. IT'S MY OPINION THAT THEY WERE ALL GREAT!!!

A lot of people are looking strictly at stats and saying that Steve Scott was better than Jim Ryun. I question whether these people have ever run on a cinder track before. There have been two periods in my life when I did a lot of training on cinders, once because it was the only track available and once for nostalgic reasons. Running on cinders is often like running in sand...sometimes wet sand. Imagine a 400 meter oval where 8 competitors are running on wet sand...think of how bad the surface would be like by that 4th lap of the mile. Cinders aren't quite that bad, but they are nothing like today's surfaces.

For Jim Ryun to take nearly 2.5 seconds off the world record at his age is almost Beamonesque in my opinion. He may not have had the longevity or quantity of fast miles that Steve Scott had..he may not have run as fast as Steve Scott did...but if you look beyond the statistics...beyond the numbers...you'll see that Jim Ryun was truly unique among US milers.

Having said that...noone will ever touch Steve Scott's string of sub 4 miles. It's a record much like Stockton's assist record or Gretzky's scoring record...it ain't gonna be touched. He may not have had the Olympics medals and he may not have broken world records, but his consistency and longevity also makes Steve Scott truly unique among US milers.

We could go on and on about this, as well as with other runners. Who was better in the long distances...Kennedy or Mills or Lindgren? You could compare faster times with a gold medal with # of races that were on world record pace...but the fact is they were all great.

Jim Ryun and Steve Scott were both great runners...why can't we just leave it at that.

While Ryun and Scott share the distinction of being great runners they also share the weakness of being strong physically but not so strong mentally.

In the 1968 Olympic final Ryun seemed unprepared or unable to adjust to the world record pace. Altitude was certainly a factor, but Ryun lagged well behind for most of the race and never seemed to comprehend or adjust to the threat. After two great years and one good year, in 1969 Ryun stepped off the track during a race in Miami and said he "couldn't take the pressure anymore." He was out of running for two years and was never dominant again.

As related in his book The Miler, Scott had his implosion the night before the 1500 final in 1984. Alone in the athletes' village, Scott lost his confidence and along, with this coach, changed tactics at the last minute to leading the race instead of his usual wait and kick tactic. This proved disastrous. Running an unfamiliar style, Scott finished far back in the pack after winning a medal the previous year in the World Championships by kicking.

I blame the coaching. Then, as now, the emphasis is 99% on the physical and practically nothing on the mental. Both Ryun and Scott had tough old school coaches who's attitude was I write the workouts, you run them. Nothing on tactics or dealing with competitors. Of course, Ryun and Scott were both so physically talented that they could run away from most competitors and not worry about tactics. But facing runners just as talented as they were, their weaknesses showed. It's inconceivable that the night before the Olympic final in 1984 Seb Coe was left alone.

Les wrote:

In the 1968 Olympic final Ryun seemed unprepared or unable to adjust to the world record pace. Altitude was certainly a factor, but Ryun lagged well behind for most of the race and never seemed to comprehend or adjust to the threat.

This take on the '68 Olympic final is so idiotic it's not worth a comment.

Does anyone know where scott is today?

Do you think it will be another 20 years before his American Record is broken.

I miss the days when scott and spivey run american races in the 3;35 range. Even if they never beat the best in the world they made things interesting.

Today all we get is 3:42 national races.

Scott's log was posted on this forum, Why don't the young elites on this forum last follow what Scott in the early 80's.

Either Scott or Spivey should be the Olympic 1500meter coach. They have the sub 3:50 know-how that is missing today.

Scott lives in Carlsbad (saw him on Sunday at the race) and coaches at Cal-State San Marcos (his men and women finsihed 4th and 3rd at their nationals).

Why doesn't anyone do what they did? Some would say there's no value for hard, long term efforts...

Ryan running 3:51 on dirt in ratty old leather spikes is probably equal to ElG running 3:43. Ryan is defintely a better all-time runner that Scott and maybe equal to ElG.

old fan wrote:

Scott's log was posted on this forum, Why don't the young elites on this forum last follow what Scott in the early 80's.

They already know it all. What would some has been loser like Steve Scott have to offer? He only got there because of natural talent. Most runners don't have the genetics to wake up before noon anymore. With all the pressure they have today: Lattes, Playstation and Heart-Rate Monitors. Like Scott didn't have that hanging over his head every day? I'd like to see how much time Scott would have if HE had to shave his legs every day? Twenty-four hours? Yeah, right, buddy!

Besides, they've gotten comfortable wearing panties.

RunnerDude wrote:

Ryan running 3:51 on dirt in ratty old leather spikes is probably equal to ElG running 3:43. Ryan is defintely a better all-time runner that Scott and maybe equal to ElG.

Hate to break the news to you. The spikes were just fine. The leather was soft, lightweight, and molded to your foot.

I don't see how there is any argument FOR steve scott. Ryun has the medal, had 3 world records, completely dominated an era. Scott was in the most competetive era? boo hoo. The fact is he was always a contender, but never a winner. Ever. How can we say Scott is the best when he was consistently dominated by Coe, Cram, even Jim Spivey, who had better overall olympic places than him (a 5th and 8th compared to a 10th and a 5th). Best does not mean fastest. Also, for a 3:47 miler, Scotts 1500 PR is somewhat weak. Kevin Sullivan has the same 1500 PR and he has never broken 3:50.

Scott was around for a long time, but who the hell cares. If you ask scott if he would have had an olympic medal or the ability to run 3:35 when he was in his 30's, I think he'd chose the medal.

Scott dominated by Spivey?

When?

not dominated but he lost to spivey many times

Scott when I last looked is listed in the Genuis Book of World Records for his 136 sub four minute miles. It is recognized as a legitimate world record. It is the only remaining US distance running world record. It may stand for a century.

If America respected distance running Scott and Spivey should have been millionaires. Heck, some .250 hitters in the major leagues make over a million dollars.

Running a sub 3:50 mile is a rare occurence in US distance running. Just after the first gulf war Spivey ran the last US sub 3:50 mile. Spivey still has the US 2000 record.

In his time Ryun was the most dominant US miler. However, he did not last that long. He retired at the same age Scott was piling up his sub 3:50 miles. Scott also helped make the 4 minute mile common place in modern track and field.

Are todays young milers aware of how good Scott and Spivey where. They are probably still obsessing about Prefontaine. Scott's 3:47 mile is more impressive than Prefontaine's 13:15 5000meters.

It has now been 22 years since Scott set his AR mile record of 3:47.48.

Spivey like Scott had sub 3:50 mile speed and was bound to beat Scott a few times. It is just the laws of average. However, Scott and Spivey would beat runners like Lunn and Berryhill 95% percent of the time. A 3:47-3:49 miler would just overwhelm a 3:55 miler. Look at what EL G does to American milers today. Scott and Cram in 1982 form would give EL G fits in a competitive mile race. EL G would win but he would have to push himself. It would be a race set in full after burner.

In 1982 England and the US were at the top of international miling. I believe in 82 the US had 3 milers in the international top ten. That was the year Byers made a spectacular comeback by running a blazing 3:50 mile.

Good old days.

utah jamz carl malone wrote:

not dominated but he lost to spivey many times

Oh really? Many times, or a few times? There's a big difference.

Malmo, hate to break it to you. There is no way that you could run 400 meters in Ryun old spikes. They would eat you up, bloodied and blistered. No way that you can tell me that the shoes are equal. Much easier to run in today's shoes!!

What would some has been loser like Steve Scott have to offer? He only got there because of natural talent. Most runners don't have the genetics to wake up before noon anymore. With all the pressure they have today: Lattes, Playstation and Heart-Rate Monitors. Like Scott didn't have that hanging over his head every day? I'd like to see how much time Scott would have if HE had to shave his legs every day? Twenty-four hours? Yeah, right, buddy!

Besides, they've gotten comfortable wearing panties.>>

We have seen where this attitude has gotton US distance running.

doped up wrote:

scott lasted longer, but there was no way for ryun to support himself through running.

scott also had more avenues to race - more high quality meets, road races, etc.

and scotts record of breaking 4 minutes, while impressive, isn't that great when you consider that no one really runs the mile that much. (el g has run approximately 108 sub 4 minute mile/1500s)

nonetheless, scott was great. however, no olympic medal for him (though he got a WC silver). ryun got an olympic medal.

very close. i'd go with ryun though. he held the world record. scott did not.

Scott's 136 sub-4 times are for mile races only. No 1500s, or 1500 conversions are included in that stat. Just FYI...and I've got his autobiography at home, and it's got a list of every race he's ever run (as of like...'98 or something I think), so I'll get back to you on his total number of races...anyway...back to work...can't wait to watch Deena kick butt tomorrow morning! and go Sara Wells! I love her!