Dave Smith is getting too fancy

there is an optimal strategy wrote:

Actually, there is one optimal racing strategy for the wide open courses these races are run on - Even pace the whole way.

It is simply irrelevant what everyone else in the race is going out in. As long as there is tons of room to pass and good footing, passing people in the race takes zero (that's a zero followed by a string of zeros for you math challenged ones out there) extra energy. As such there is absolutely no way that running faster the first 2k or hanging back TOO much and 'flying' the last 2k could possibly be as efficient as a 100% even pace the entire race.

while im not saying smith strategy is stupid, making blanket staements like this is...

it depends completely on the runner, some guys thrive on the positive momentum from passing people the whole race and do better going out slower (or even)

others feel that constantly working your way up is mentally draining, and prefer to get out quickly, settle in to a pack, then start hammering again in the last 3k

personally while i understand that even splits is the most efficient physically, I race better when i get out well, am around the position i want to finish in, and can settle in and relax with a group for a while versus constantly trying to make up ground, where i tend to get frustrated (as do many other runners out there)

mental side of it is just as important as the physical...

everything within reason, i was a 25:30 guy...usuallly went out around 4:45-4:50 (and ran much better than when i would go out in 5:00-5:05)

there is an optimal strategy wrote:

Actually, there is one optimal racing strategy for the wide open courses these races are run on - Even pace the whole way.

It is simply irrelevant what everyone else in the race is going out in. As long as there is tons of room to pass and good footing, passing people in the race takes zero (that's a zero followed by a string of zeros for you math challenged ones out there) extra energy. As such there is absolutely no way that running faster the first 2k or hanging back TOO much and 'flying' the last 2k could possibly be as efficient as a 100% even pace the entire race.

What you just wrote is what people are hammering DS about. Have you not being reading the previous post. OSU has been getting hammered for running the way your suggesting.DS stated holding back is a good way for a 10th rated team to get 3rd, but not a good way for a top team to run. Read before you post.

oldoldrunner wrote:

What you just wrote is what people are hammering DS about. Have you not being reading the previous post. OSU has been getting hammered for running the way your suggesting.DS stated holding back is a good way for a 10th rated team to get 3rd, but not a good way for a top team to run. Read before you post.

Oh Old Old Guy. I am so disappointed in you. Let's see in how many ways your post fails logic 101.

1) "What you just wrote is what people are hammering DS about" It is true that what I just wrote is what people are hammering DS about. It is not true that I (as in, me) have been hammering DS about this. What is your assumption here? That I (as in me) agree with the morons who have been hammering Smith in this way? Other? It is hard to imagine what your assumption could be such that your first sentence makes sense in any way other than purely grammatically.

2) "Have you not being reading the previous post." Actually, yes I have. I have read over and over the asinine posts of those who have been hammering Smith. On this one even grammar will not save you, Mr Old. You forgot the question mark.

3 "OSU has been getting hammered for running the way your suggesting." That is true. That does not make those doing the hammering any more than jabbering jackasses.

4) "DS stated holding back is a good way for a 10th rated team to get 3rd, but not a good way for a top team to run." Yes, indeed he did. I am still hoping that his statement to this effect was either a) a way of taking the heat for last year's poor finish thus letting his athletes off the hook publicly (generally a good move by a coach) or b) a way of getting the morons posting complaints about his strategy to STFU. I am hoping, but not certain, that Smith is too intelligent to get suckered into this nonsense about the need to go out fast just because others go out fast.

5) "Read before you post." Turns out I did Mr. Old. Now what I would suggest is that you think before you post. Just because a bunch of fools on LRC think that to run inefficiently is a really good idea (What, because they lack the mental discipline to maintain the right pace? Are we talking 14 year olds here?) that does not make it a good idea.

Thanks. You made my day.

You were 0 for 5. Better luck next time my oh so intellectually challenged one.

there is an optimal strategy wrote:

Your post makes no sense.

try again somewhere else wrote:

Your post makes no sense.

For the brainless very little makes any sense.

I'd just like to know what is OSU's goal for this year? They have not run a race all year. So ok, they are TARGETING what their 4th or 5th run? Stanford runners are to far ahead. I say OSU team finds themselves back in the 60's or 70's in line trying to move up all race. BORRRINNNGGG. What the heck is German up to? This entire season was so dull. Maybe OSU is doing exactly what they planned. I'll be replacing my toilet the day of Nationals, should be more fun than watching Nationals.

Man you guys are right, Dave Smith has NO IDEA what he is doing. He can't coach at all, he is driving his team to the ground! Oh wait, they won a national championship with out Fernandez

oldoldrunner wrote:I guess cross country has really changed since my day. I remember going out under 4:20 both my junior and senior years and being in 15th place or so.

If only we had a time machine. It would have been fun to see you and your 15 pals out ahead of Chelanga (who split 4:21 on the way to one of the most dominant NCAA cross performances in recent memory).

Of course, 20 years from now, we'll all be "remembering" how Chelanga went out in 4:05 for the first mile this year...

Chip off the ol block wrote:

Dave Smith is Jerry Schumacher in disguise. Jerry should have won three or four titles at Wisconsin but his unbattletested boys always came up short time and time again. I feel Dave does the same thing and it ends up biting them. Consistently being outcoached is what happend to Schumacher and it appears Dave is going down the same road...unfortunately.

Gosh, too many good quotes from this thread.

Let's see, Stanford ran hard at Regionals and bombed at Nationals, and OSU strolled through Regionals (and their entire season) and were brilliant at Nationals.

Who had the better strategy?

Face it guys. XC is like no other NCAA sport. There is no season. If you race hard during the season, you decrease your chances of succeeding at Nationals.

It looks like a team in a competitive year can run hard maybe two times in the regular season and have a shot at an NCAA title.

Even if I have personal experience with other events it was painful to see the big group stupidity of "experts" on this board putting down a coach for doing a "Controlled" season , not going balls out every weekend and saving it for the Nationals.

I knew Coach Smith will have success and he will shove it off in the face of the retarded coaches that have killed tons of talent with going balls out every weekend strategy.

Its really the same for other events as well...yet you ll see 60% of the "smart" "proven" coaches having their kids running their SB in this coming Indoor December meets.;)

Ps: Is the owner of LetsRun against Dave Smith Strategy??I see No Recognition for OSU on the front of the page....

hold the phone wrote:

oldoldrunner wrote:I guess cross country has really changed since my day. I remember going out under 4:20 both my junior and senior years and being in 15th place or so.

If only we had a time machine. It would have been fun to see you and your 15 pals out ahead of Chelanga (who split 4:21 on the way to one of the most dominant NCAA cross performances in recent memory).

Of course, 20 years from now, we'll all be "remembering" how Chelanga went out in 4:05 for the first mile this year...

Go read the previous post. I did not write that "From the Stands" did.

oldoldrunner wrote:I did not write that "From the Stands" did.

You're right -- my apologies for the mix-up.

Coach Dave Smith is the best trasck and field coach in the state of Oklahoma. Dave Smith also treats his assistant coaches with class and does not run them off like others in the state.

he had a terrible day from fernandez (77th) in the team scoring, yet still won by 16, but they got a huge collapse from stanford to do it.

I guess Stanford racing a lot and very gutsy helped them when it matter:)

Lol.. Maybe if they should have done another intra-squad race 5 days before the NCAA`s they would have been able to pull it off better:)

German helped the team win this championship either way you are looking at it. Props to them.

Great job Dave Smith and Oklahoma St. You deserve the title. Big props to Colby Lowe. What country is he from? Does it really matter. Smith was unfairly bashed by many on this board so I'm happy for him. Even happier that the traditional powers didn't win.

Your an idiot. What are you talking about?