Scottdye,
We seem to be on the same page half the time and on opposite pages the other half! I think it is an agreement in purpose but a difference of methodology.
"What he and his father should be doing, is taking a lifetime approach" - exactly! That's what we are doing!
"Seriously, every workout should have a purpose, if at 13 your purpose is to run road races thats fine, but he is not going to win them." - agreed! He loves running them (they suit his ability and training better) and loves beating the adults. Of course he won't be winning any for some time yet - that's because it is a LIFETIME approach!
"So you don't agree with the high school system, running in high school and college is for many other purposes than just running. It teaches discipline, team work and provides a social outlet." - He doesn't have a high school program, but the running he does provides all the things you have listed.
"And at 13, maybe, just maybe, the kid has no idea what he wants to do in the future. Like one of the others posting indicated, sometimes kids of that age are happy, just pleaseing there parents. Plus he probably gets alot of accolades when he races on the roads (assuming he does)."
Like *some* 13 yr olds, he thinks he does. He wants to win Olympic gold. Will he? 99.9% certain he won't, but I'm onlh going to encourage him. The hunger has come from him. His sister was the same at that age - she decided that her future was karate. She trained for hours a day, got a black belt in record time for her dojo and is hoping to teach her own classes in a few years. She decided at 13 she wanted to make a living from karate and she probably will. I'm glad I didn't tell her to be realistic and not to train so intensly. She has a right to dream and to reach. So does my son with his running. And do they like to please their parents and receive accolades? Sure. That's not unhealthy. And I love praising their efforts, determination and consistency. Good life lessons; good family relationships.
"My point simply was at his time in his development there is no reason to be doing workouts of that intensity. He has a whole lifetime in front of him.
His father indicates these are really not done at that intense of a level, but marathon pace. How can we know what marathon pace is for a developing body. Again, as mentioned by another, Daniels tables are for developed and mature runners, not 13 year old bodies."
I totally agree that there is no need for intense workouts and that he has a lifetime ahead. That is why he has done very little intense VO2 max workouts and his workouts have been primarily lower intensity aerobic workouts. Marathon pace does not mean that he would or even could (he couldn't) run a marathon at that pace - it simply means it's the sort of intensity that a well-trained adult would run a marathon at. It is the max level of fat burning - lowest level of lactate. It is not easy, but comfortable. I am fairly experienced at estimating the effort and the progress he has made suggests we have got it right. As to the mileage / number of reps, he has built up to this over 6 years - you would take a 13yr old who has been running for 2 yrs and allow them to do this. It is not that intense - honest! He can joke with me while running at that pace!
And as for Daniels - we do nothing like that (wrong poster). His background has been 95+% easy fat-burning kind of running. This is first year of more frequent consistent faster workouts and we are increasing that VERY slowly and cautiously precisely because it is newer to him.
"I just don't see the need to run those kind or workouts for a 13 year old. Remember investments strategy. The risk should equal the reward. What reward is there at 13 for that kind of risk?"
I think that this kind of intensity is EXACTLY the kind of intensity that does invest for the future. It is the VO2 max focussed, short term training that provides instant reward and high long term risk. Again, he has built up to these kind of sessions over many years. It is no risk to him. Rather it is the higher intensity, faster paced sessions he is less used to that pose the greater risk - we approach those with great caution and will be progressing slowly.
I should also add that he LOVES these sessions - his favourite of the week. He gets no more or less praise than any other session, but he gets a great sesnse of internal satisfaction and accomplishment from them.
I hope you understand me better, Scottdye. Please be careful not to tar everyone with the same brush or put a situation you only know a few details about into a mould of something you may have seen elsewhere. He is not being pushed; he is being held back. He is not being coerced; he is doing what he loves. He is not doing anything too intense; he is coping and adapting well. He is not training for youth glory; he is being taught to invest for the future.
I wish you and yours all the best, both in running and in life.