Saying that Meb's win should not count as an American victory is like saying that Condoleeza Rice was the first female Secretary of State because Madeline Albright was originally from czechoslovakia or that Henry Kissinger winning the Nobel does not count as an American winning because he was born in Germany.
ducttape wrote:
Saying that Meb's win should not count as an American victory is like saying that Condoleeza Rice was the first female Secretary of State because Madeline Albright was originally from czechoslovakia or that Henry Kissinger winning the Nobel does not count as an American winning because he was born in Germany.
huh?
I'm not surprised! Historically those who looked like Meb who happened to be born here, were the first economic generators for the country were finally given equal rights in 1964. Hell they were not treated as full citizens prior to that (Jim Crow laws). What irks me is that the year of 1982 gives reference to the last American to win. Un Cubano de Cuba. Oh I'm sorry for you Americans -- A Cuban from Cuba. Alberto Salazar (a great sounding American name) was the last AMERICAN who won. Born in CUBA he and his family emigrated to the US. Hmmm..just like MEB. However MEB was 12 years old while Alberto was 2. I wonder how much of an influence their previous nationality had on their athletic success?
If you know anything about MEB's siblings you will conclude that he comes from a family of over acheivers.
do the kids who saw Meb on letterman feel like one of their own has just won New York? Is it going to inspire them to give it a crack.... or will they think... "that is what the africans do"
good one
That article isn't racist at all. He doesn't criticize Meb for being Eritrean once. If anything, he's implying that Meb's African heritage gives him a leg up automatically, which is positive racial profiling.
So ha.
That article isn't racist at all. He doesn't criticize Meb for being Eritrean once. If anything, he's implying that Meb's African heritage gives him a leg up automatically, which is positive racial profiling.
So ha.
on the runs wrote:
Hayduke wrote:Jorge can run for president, Med can not. Is that racist? Is that up for debate?
Jorge is ineligible for the presidency. So are Hall, Ritz, Tegenkamp, and Sollinsky. If eligibility for the office of president is your litmus test, most of your stars don't qualify.
sorry to quote a post from so far back in the thread...but why are these guys ineligible? hall was born in big bear lake, california. ritz was born in grand rapids, michigan. solinsky was born in stevens point, wisconson. torres was born in chicago, illinois
ranga muffin wrote:
do the kids who saw Meb on letterman feel like one of their own has just won New York? Is it going to inspire them to give it a crack.... or will they think... "that is what the africans do"
I think your rhetorical question is implying "do the White, Aglo-Saxon Protestant kids or the kids whose families have been here for more than 70 years who saw Meb on Letterman feel one of their own just won New York?" Maybe not...but that should not determine the answer to whether or not an American runner truly won the NYC Marathon.
Meb's appearance on Letterman may inspire hundreds of thousands of immigrant and first and second generation American children whose families have very little or may be having trouble finding their niche. It may inspire them to not give up on that dream that their parents had for them in coming here that maybe one day they can achieve something so great in (and for) a country that provides them such opportunities.
Remember, Meb does not have to represent white America to fully represent America; he represents many important demographics and subsets of our country.
I don't think a bunch of heavy-set or even average weight little girls would be inspired by Deena Kastor...they will think..."that is what skinny people do"...does this mean Deena does not truly represent America because she is not identified with by every demographic.
Does LeBron James not qualify as an American because short, white kids will not identify with him because he is tall and black and a descendant of a West African nation?
Your point is that because WASP America does not identify with him, America cannot claim this victory. Spin it any way you want...that's floating dangerously close to racism because it is very dangerous to determine what demographics have to identify with you (your words were..."one of their own") before a person can represent America.
I am white, but I went to UCLA and I grew up in a poor part of San Diego; I identify with Meb more than I do Ryan Hall because my American experience is more similar to Meb's; I do feel that "one of my own" has just won New York.
If the question is about race (can a Caucasian win NYC?), then Meb did NOT answer it, but if the question is about whether an American runner (100% american schools, american towns, american coaches, american training and resources), then Meb did answer it.
forest wrote:
Hayduke wrote:Jorge is ineligible for the presidency. So are Hall, Ritz, Tegenkamp, and Sollinsky. If eligibility for the office of president is your litmus test, most of your stars don't qualify.
sorry to quote a post from so far back in the thread...but why are these guys ineligible? hall was born in big bear lake, california. ritz was born in grand rapids, michigan. solinsky was born in stevens point, wisconson. torres was born in chicago, illinois
I think because they are too young? not sure on the rules though.
I think we need to stop throwing around the term "American-born" in this discussion as a way to side step the race issue. Is there something inherent about the birthing process in American hospitals that strips people of their ultimate aerobic capacity? Meb came here as a young boy, I don't know much about his family, but I know he has a lot of brothers and sisters, including a few that are younger than he. It is conceivable that one of his siblings was born here in America. If his younger brother won the New York Marathon with the same sounding name and similar accent, would everyone be cool with it? Probably not.
So stop sugar coating this argument by making it about birthplace; this is about race and the fact that it is perceived as less impressive that someone who is of east African descent wins a major marathon because it is so common. This is true, it is not newsworthy that a man of East African descent won a major marathon, just like no one was amazed that Canadians and Jamacians have won the OLY 100m in the last 15 years because they were of West African descent.
The guy writes for CNBC. Enough said.
This article has received a ton of fanfare here, but is there any uproar anywhere else in the media? I haven't seen any but really have no idea.
My question revolves around the author of the article. If Rush Limbaugh had written this article, no doubt the entire nation would be calling for his head. Rush's rather insensitive comments about Donovan McNabb a few years ago made national news and have recently prevented him from being a part of a group purchasing the St Louis Rams.
So, I offer this up for debate: would this be a bigger deal if Limbaugh had written the article? I realize many of you already have opinions about Limbaugh or liberal/conservative views, but try and keep those out of your mind.. i.e. hating Limbaugh or Obama personally does not make something national news worthy.
Lets not belabor the obvious too much here. Yes, when someone with far more name recognition/media exposure says something stupid, it makes a bigger splash in the media pool than when an obscure writer (who most people haven't heard of) does the same thing.
Other things that we could debate: Is New York a really big city, does it hurt when you put your hand in a fire, and will the lets run server crash during the NCAA meet.
forest wrote:
on the runs wrote:Jorge is ineligible for the presidency. So are Hall, Ritz, Tegenkamp, and Sollinsky. If eligibility for the office of president is your litmus test, most of your stars don't qualify.
sorry to quote a post from so far back in the thread...but why are these guys ineligible? hall was born in big bear lake, california. ritz was born in grand rapids, michigan. solinsky was born in stevens point, wisconson. torres was born in chicago, illinois
None of them is at least thirty-five years old.
The worst thing about the article is that it shows what a totally incompetent journalist Rovell is. What he DIDN'T know about Meb, that Meb's entire career as a runner has taken place since he moved to the U.S., that he is not a "ringer" by any definition, could have been discovered with about 45 seconds of research. I don't see why I should believe anything else Rovell writes, not that I'm even going to read it.
I actually don't think the article has anything to do with racism.
What if Ryan Hall had move to Africa at age 12, and won the NYC Marathon representing that country. I think that American distance fans would be praising him as American-born.
I'm just saying that Rovell was pointing out how Meb is not American born.
Miss wrote:
I actually don't think the article has anything to do with racism.
What if Ryan Hall had move to Africa at age 12, and won the NYC Marathon representing that country. I think that American distance fans would be praising him as American-born.
I'm just saying that Rovell was pointing out how Meb is not American born.
It has to do with idiocy. He doesn't even realise that Salazar was born in Cuba.
I agree with idiocy too.
Miss wrote:
I actually don't think the article has anything to do with racism.
What if Ryan Hall had move to Africa at age 12, and won the NYC Marathon representing that country. I think that American distance fans would be praising him as American-born.
I'm just saying that Rovell was pointing out how Meb is not American born.
It has everything to do with race...as I pointed out in my post above....being American-born has nothing to do with this argument...having an east-african surname does. Your little Ryan Hall scenario only makes sense because Ryan Hall is a blue-eyed, blonde haired, white american. If the tables were switched in your scenario, that is, that Meb was born here and at a young age his family decided to move back to their homeland of Erirea and he gained citizenship there and won the NYC marathon, it would NOT matter to ANYONE really that he happened to be born in America (that would just be a interesting side-note).
Like I said above, there is nothing inherent about the birthing process in our hospitals here in the United States that affects people's ability to run long distances effectively. This is not about American-born vs naturalized....the issue that has come up here is that we are NOT interested about whether and American can win a major marathon or whether (now) even a complete and total product of the American system can win a major marathon, it is whether a WHITE American can win a major marathon.