If Bill McChesney holds the 5k, and 10k records at Oregon, Why is Pre the dominant idol?

OK, that does it.... pretty much hammers home the fact that there are so many of us out here who would love to have some chance to see parts of what it was like in those days, I can honestly say that, when I was in high school, I used to pretend I was Pre / Shorter and later Rodgers, and I know I am not alone. It would be a huge loss to the running community (at least the part of the community that has respect for and understanding of the massive contribution to the sport that people like Pre and Bill had). Just reading threads from you guys is amazing, closest I will ever get to talking to the legends - seriously.

Hi Steve,

I wish you would reconsider your thoughts in writing some sort of documentary related book on the running greats, your brother included. I think the time is now. Bring back the running brotherhood.

The title of this thread states that McChesney holds the 10k record at Oregon. That has been incorrect since 2007, when Rupp broke it by 17 seconds.

McChesney is at best an honorable mention, because he ran 13:18.6 (1980) and 13:15.77 (1981) and 13:14.8 (1982), and got ranked high based on his times, but he is not a legend anymore than Steve Holman is a legend. He doesn't seem to have ever won a Pac-10 conference title, nor NCAA title, and he was 3rd at the 1980 Olympic Trials. If you are posting world class times and you can't win in your college conference, then you are a paper tiger.

http://www.tracktownusa.com/track.item.10/bill-mcchesney.html

"However, when you compare Steve Prefontaine and Bill McChesney side by side, the only thing Pre seems to have over McChesney is his vaunted charisma. In the University of Oregon record book, it's almost shocking to see McChesney's name appear above Pre's in the list of Ducks’ all-time fastest runs at 5000m and 10,000m."

You factor in place results, and the "shocking" becomes quite mundane.

Brits just don't get Pre. It's an American think you'll never get, guys. It's like trying to explain the appeal of punk rock to a dave matthew's band fan.

Not shocking at all wrote:

If you are posting world class times and you can't win in your college conference, then you are a paper tiger.

You might want to check what it took to win conference titles in the Pac 10 (or was it still Pac 8) back then?

I know enough about that era and the players involved that I never considered comparing McChes to Pre. No more than anyone compared Salazar to Pre. After all, Salazar also made the 1980 team, ran for Oregon, won NCAA titles, ran 27:49, 27:40, 27:25, 27:45, 27:56 over 1980 to 1984.

I think the OP is just trying to stir something up about a subject that doesn't really exist in fact.

Anyway, if you knew more about Bill McChesney you wouldn't dismiss him as "mundane".

Look into his high school career a little bit (you would need to see the HS lists for all those years). I believe he ran 8:50.9y as a sophomore and that is about the fastest ever ... maybe one or two have done better in 10th grade. He ran the aforementioned 28:58 6 mile as a soph. I can't remember all the marks as well as I used to but he had an amazing series of marks in the 6 mile and 10,000m in 10th, 11th and 12th grade. His HS team set records in the DisMed and 4 x Mile and maybe the 4 x 1500 (can't remember).

I always looked at his mile, 2mile, and 6mile times and his school's relay times (from his soph year particularly) with awe when I was in high school. He never popped a sub-4 or an 8:30's 2mi or a 13:40's 5k in high school, but if you do a little research you will see that IT WAS AMAZING HE DID NOT.

HE did, however, improve every year at 5k and was right up there near the top of the world in 80, 81 and 82. In '83 he made the Worlds team for Helsinki in the 10k.

I don't know his record in NCAA comp at Oregon off the top of my head, but during that era WSU and UTEP had guys that are as good as Sam Chelenga is right now, and several that were better. By guys I mean SEVERAL. Maybe you are aware of this, but if not, you should look into that too. Guys like Padilla, Chapa, McChesney, Salazar, Virgin, and Stintzi did not win many indoor or outdoor titles because of this. When you see that Virgin and Salazar were running 27:50 during college, you would think that they would have won 3-6 titles at 5k indoor and 10k outdoor, but they did not.

The main difference between the Africans that were dominant at that time vs. now was that they were generally much older (26-28 YO) WHEN THEY STARTED than they are now. Also, some teams were comprised completely of world-class AFricans.

Bill McChesney was as good a talent as nearly ANY runner in American history. I would rate only a few ahead of him. He also had a CV that ranks him in the top-20 all time for America. He isn't well-known because he didn't run the mile (like Ryun or Scott) or get famous in the marathon (like Shorter, Rodgers and Salazar), and he was not high-profile in XC (like Shorter, Porter, Jennings or Ritz). He also missed out on most that period where Americans were very close to WR-level in the 5k/10k and there were magazines like The Runner out there, making people like Bickford, Nenow, Salazar, Eyestone, Porter and Jennings more popular with hardcore runners and fans.

He definitely would not be considered "honorable mention" by the knowledgeable.

You are a little late to the party here, all of this has been stated or alluded to already.

The writer of the blurb clearly never met Billy.

As I said before, Pre had Pre's charisma, Billy had Billy's charisma.

They were different people, different era's.

I'll also add this, those in the know know that Billy ran faster on less training than any athlete in history. His achilles tendon problem was chronic.

If he had never had that injury, his career would have been really different.

Hey Bolt,

"You've got mail."

I was afraid you might not chime in because of how this site can be at times, and to tell the truth I was reticent myself but wanted to influence the dialog here to stay classy.

You and Billy were my best friends for a few years, and you guys were my brothers in college and your family, my family for a few years.

I think I wrote this already, but I never told you. As much time as I spent with you and Bill, I spent very little time with Tom, but it is one of my favorite Oregon memories.

I can't remember if it was on an official work out, or just on a run, when I ran up upon Tom. I think it was a workout at Hendricks in Tom's senior year, and for some reason Tom wasn't feeling up to it that day or for some reason he was running behind everyone enough, that you know, my sorry freshman ass was able to run with him.

I remember we started talking about life, philosophies of life and stuff, and proceeded to have this amazing conversation, Tom was so inspiring, I was wowed by his combination of intellect and heart. He seemed to me very secure in himself and a very consciously kind individual. A real role model. (Of course this will make you think of all the times your older brother tortured you as a kid, lol.)

--Thanks for the kind words, however they may be too kind...you sure you are not thinking about the other "roommate"? lol.

If you read this before your email, here is a hint, the three of us were all roommates at one point. (It's okay, the statute of limitations in Eugene has expired ;-).

PS, I have been in email contact via this thread and another, with a few of Bill's friends from various Eugene years. I was thinking it might be nice for some of us to write up some remembrances to aid in your writings, and perhaps to share with your family...

I am sure you are swamped this time of year and with two young sons, but hope to hear from you via email and reconnect...

1. He had a problem with alcohol.

2. He was 4th in the Olympics.

3. He was a womanizer.

4. He defied authority.

The perfect Nike athlete.

JR Ewing wrote:

1. He had a problem with alcohol.

2. He was 4th in the Olympics.

3. He was a womanizer.

4. He defied authority.

The perfect Nike athlete.

Let's reduce your life in a similar fashion and see what we come up with, shall we?

1. Rote, immature, anonymous shit on one the Internet. Congrats, you got the gold medal on that.

For now, as many have done before...let's take this one by one in reverse order.

4. Defying authority is not automatically a bad thing. In Pre's case, he defied authority appropriately, and helped win the right for all athletes to have the chance to make a living with their pursuits.

3. He was a womanizer. Based on what? The whopping 3 women you allegedly know about because of a...movie? And why would the word "womanizer" automatically be a pejorative? Because you have been brainwashed religiously or culturally to shame your own human nature and sexuality? A person's sex life is between them and their partners. That said, post summer of love, post sexual revolution America, there were plenty of women who were "manizers," the pursuit of sexual freedom was all around. If the movies are to be believed, Pre's romantic life was pretty limited, and complicated by the fact that his girlfriend was constrained by her religious upbringing. A fact that accounts for many young marriages, and many millions of divorces.

We won't even talk about the fact that if he was a "sexual adventurer," he was doing no more or no less than most college students of the day. If you believe the movies, he didn't really have that many notches on his belt.

3. He was 4th at the Olympics. For those who engage in "black and white" thinking you seem to correlate that with "failure." How many Olympics did you run in, medals? Most people do not get that far. Additionally, as many psychologists can tell you, exercising all or nothing, or black and white thinking, is a terribly unhealthy trait. You seem to have it.

4th in the Olympics is actually, to someone mature and realistic, quite laudable. He was very young, and he was in the race competitively until just before the finish. Pretty impressive in context for the time/era.

4. He had a problem with alcohol. There is no excuse for driving under the influence, and he paid the ultimate price for it. ...Only 30 years later to have some immature, angry unhappy asshole reduce his life to a few elements.

What you do not mention is...

1. He was undefeated over 1 mile, on US soil from his Freshman year until the day he died. There is no other American runner who was that dominant domestically, try it.

2. He held every American record from 2k to 10k/6mile, try that.

3. He put his reputation and his career on the line by advocating for all athletes to receive fair compensation without loss of Olympic eligibility - and indirectly ended "shamateurism." He turned down a million dollars to turn Pro with the ITA, in order to help all athletes retain Olympic eligibility and make a living while competing. He did this at a very young age, showing leadership, at a time when most people are picking their noses.

4. He was a GREAT friend. --Try it sometime.

5. At a time when he had no money, he gave what he could, His Time, speaking at many high schools and prisons about running and fitness.

I could go on, but it is probably beyond your maturity and intelligence...to try and influence you to get your head...and your heart, out of your ASS.