1. Moorcroft's additional WR at the Commonwealth Games did indeed make him the Bekele of his day. Before him, Rono was the Bekele of his day. After him, Aouita was the Bekele of his day. It's a rough estimate in terms of dominant ability, not a clone of each and every accomplishment.
2. Then if it's so hard how come Ritz is supposedly capable of that in a WC or OG final? Can't have it both ways.
Ritz's sweet spot seems to be 3000-5000, though I don't think anyone on here doesn't think he could take down the 10,000 AR right now and possibly deliver sub-27:00. But, he is a strength runner, and unless Alberto turns him into a 1:49 800 guy, Ritz's ruminations are correct. Too bad there's not a cross-country race in the Winter Olympics.
Maybe Ritz should give the steeple a go. Those tend to be fast from the get-go affairs, none of this jog and kick bullshit.
First of all, some of you are assuming that Ritz can go out and solo a amazing PR to get a medal. That's as likely as Bekele running 12:35 in a championship final while running solo from the start. It ain't gonna happen, man.
Ritz has no shot to medal at 5000m. He ran the last 800m in 2:00.x, clearly fading the last 100m. He had no kick at the end, it was a sustained drive, and even then he didn't run under 2:30 the last 1k.
Ritz wants a medal, he ain't getting it at 5000m, and he doesn't give a shit on what ya' want to see (a white hope on the track, not being a also ran). Simple as that.
666 wrote:
...clearly fading the last 100m. He had no kick at the end... and even then he didn't run under 2:30 the last 1k....
Umm, he set the AR, my friend. Faster than Kennedy, Lagat, Maree, Tegenkamp, Webb, Hall, etc. Way to throw cold water on a superb race by Ritz.
It's a amazing record, but just as Ritz has done, you have to compare that performance to what it takes to medal which is what he wants to do.
Look at Lagat's 12:59, it's slower than 12:56, not a AR, and simply not as impressive time-wise. But he closed in 52-53, beating Bekele. Even if Bekele wasn't there, he proved to himself and to others that he stood a chance in a championship final.
The American Public puts way too much emphasis on both the Olympics and Olympic Medals.
Kennedy and Pre and Salazar and several others have done more for the sport than many medalists ever will.
Beardsley, and Greg Meyer and Patti Dillon were never Olympians and they have all played a larger part of American Marathoning than Sell or Russell or Lewy.
Redoinkulous wrote:
The American Public puts way too much emphasis on both the Olympics and Olympic Medals.
Kennedy and Pre and Salazar and several others have done more for the sport than many medalists ever will.
Beardsley, and Greg Meyer and Patti Dillon were never Olympians and they have all played a larger part of American Marathoning than Sell or Russell or Lewy.
It's Ritz's career, not anybody else's. He wants a medal, and since he's the one putting the work in, that's what he should strive for.
You're twisting it, dimwitted fanboy. This thread has clearly become about how Ritz's ability, as displayed in that AR race, would translate to a championship final at the highest level of the sport.
what are you saying man wrote:
666 wrote:...clearly fading the last 100m. He had no kick at the end... and even then he didn't run under 2:30 the last 1k....
Umm, he set the AR, my friend. Faster than Kennedy, Lagat, Maree, Tegenkamp, Webb, Hall, etc. Way to throw cold water on a superb race by Ritz.
666 wrote:
It's a amazing record, but just as Ritz has done, you have to compare that performance to what it takes to medal which is what he wants to do.
Look at Lagat's 12:59, it's slower than 12:56, not a AR, and simply not as impressive time-wise. But he closed in 52-53, beating Bekele. Even if Bekele wasn't there, he proved to himself and to others that he stood a chance in a championship final.
I think Lagat closed in 51.9 in that race. Ritz ain't doing THAT any time soon.
But I don't think anyone is arguing that he should focus on the 5k, despite his great 2 mile and 5k pr's.
No, the question is: 10k or marathon. While I always supported his move to the marathon based on all the reasons he initially went there and the same reasons that some are still arguing that he should go back there ( those reasons being: more upsets in championship marathons than in championships 10k's, less reliance on kick in marathon, assumption that Ritz strength would translate to marathon being best event, east africans not always sending best teams to Olympics or WC marathons, east africans some times choking in past championship marathons but not in 10k, 10k being the event the east africans were most dominant at and probably toughest event for a non-african to medal in, etc), I think several things have changed.
Conto and I already discussed the change in the marathon: east africans are breaking out big time in that event lately, with 2:04/5 guys coming out of the woodwork, and last 2 major champs (Olympics and WC's), the east africans dominated. In other words; marathon might be as tough as 10k or tougher in the 2012 to medal in.
AND....Ritz has struggled at times at the marathon and surprised us with his performances in shorter races (2 mile and 5k great times, and 6th in WC's 10k was better than 9th in olympic marathon). All that means:
Right now, Ritz's chance of a medal in the 10k, while still pretty small, seems at least as strong as his chances of a medal in the marathon . Unless he breaks out huge in his next marathon.
And THAT my friends, is the bottom line.
Sir Lance-alot wrote:
Conto and I already discussed the change in the marathon: east africans are breaking out big time in that event lately, with 2:04/5 guys coming out of the woodwork, and last 2 major champs (Olympics and WC's), the east africans dominated. In other words; marathon might be as tough as 10k or tougher in the 2012 to medal in.
Not established as a trend, yet. Also, Conto is an idiot.
Conto wrote:
Rojo,
You're wrong man. 1st, when Ritz moved to the marathon, and when Weldon and you were running marathons, it was a different event. THE EVENT HAS CHANGED the last few years. That aint happening any longer.
I'm not saying that Ritz or Hall have no shot. But Ritz has just as good a shot at a top 3 finish in a 10k run like this year's 10k. I know, he finished 6th. But with 3 more years of training, I could see him running 13:40/13:15 in a championship 10k... picking off guys and finishing for a medal.
Conto, i agree with your sentiment. The marathon is amazing over the last few years. The Africans go where the money is. Does anyone remember when Kenyans couldn't win marathons in the late 1980s. It simply didn't make sense for them to train for months for Boston when there was little money in it.
Now it makes little sense for anyone but a Bekele to run track 10ks. Bekele wins everything so he gets alll the money. the others can make vastly more money unless they are in the top 3 or 4 in the world running the roads so they have all abandoned the 10k for the roads.
Seriously, if you are the 5th best Kenyan, you can train for the 10k and a remote chacne for a medal or you can bag the olympics and make a nice living.
Americans have their best bet at medalling when the east africans don't show up. We did well in the 1970s as there ewere no pro east africans. So there is a shift and the watered down 10k may be getting easier.
The kenyans are very bad at peaking their guys for worlds so there is a chance in the 10k. But anything can always happen in a marathon. The one thing that makes the marathon tough is there aer moroccans in it whereas they don't really run the 10k.
People talkign about the world champs marathon aren't realizing that it's not a fair comparison as you can run a bunch of guys. The key to americans having any chance of medalling in any male distandcde event is the fact that there are only 3 kenyans adn ethiopians allowed.
I don't care if Ritz runs a 2:03 marathon under Alberto. He is dirty now in my eyes and anything he runs under Alberto will have a big red* next to it from here on out. Good job playing down your race to avoid the obvious.
You sold your soul to the devils at Nike.
How can you compare Moorcroft to Bekele? After Moorcrofts world record his next best time was around 13-20! After the world record he was 3rd in European Championships later in the year so how did he dominate ?. He won 2 Commonwealth titles of the 5k field was no comparison to the Europeans and he did not any medal in the Olympics.