I have no proof, other than they simply feel far less stressed to me. Less stress on the calves and achilles than uphill running to be sure, and it takes less apparent effort on the hammies to accelerate. Perhaps it's because I stride like a true sprinter, and not a distance runner. Genetics I suppose on that.
Here's a question for us older hangers-on. Have any of you investigated Testosterone Replacement Therapy? I'm not talking about getting juiced with illegally obtained steroids, but having your testosterone bumped back up into the high normal range by your doctor.
We've been losing 1% of the stuff on an annual basis since the age of 35 or so, and contrary to the documented negative effects of estrogen replacement for older women, testosterone replacement is now showing some real benefits for men with nominal side effects if done properly.
I'm 49 and had my doctor test my levels and will be going back for a follow up visit in late September to review results and whatnot.
Thank you for echoing a phenomenon I've similarly experienced twice over the last 3 years.
Seems like the two a day format and the extra time on foot prompt a sort of critical mass response. Suddenly I'll feel like a boat breaking out of plowing through the water mode, and begin planing away with greater speed and far less effort.
In terms of performance that has been the difference between a 1;40 half marathon vs. a 1:24. (age 55@the time)
It's proven to be a fickle state to hold though. Reduced training or minor injury have brought things back to reality in a hurry
As I approach 50 (about a year away) I must agree with # 1,2,3 and 4, almost to a tee. Just can't get myself into that high hurt zone. For a few years I thought I was low on iron or something, but I came to the realization it is age. Someone above mentioned testosterone repacement (can even be topical), anyone try this?
smd wrote:
Further on up the road wrote:My slow down "feels" most like it is due to my legs just having lost much of their bounce, spring, resiliency, etc. My heart and lungs feel fine. I can best express it in relation to the marathons and ultras I ran in my younger days. In those I would sometimes feel an absolute deadness in my legs say 40 to 45 miles into a 50 miler and my pace would slow dramatically: a minute a mile or more. Well, now, my legs will feel like that after a mile or two of hard running. It is worse on pavement, but if I really try to let go and hammer I am assured of entering this deadzone quickly. A few other things I notice as I slow:
1. I really don't get sore like I used to when running well, even if I do run hard. I am just noticeably stiff after most runs. That leg stiffness is the defining characteristic of my slow down.
2. I used to be able to run hard, hammering at a high HR and breathing rate for long stretches. Now it is impossible for me to maintain a high HR for any meaningful length of time. My legs and mechanics go south quickly, and don't allow me to push into those zones for long.
3. Somedays I feel great, but they are infrequent and I can no longer tell when they will occur and what I did (if anything) to make them happen.
4. The gap between my best days and worst days is widening. Best days I can run sub-7 min for 8 - 10 mile training run and on worst days, I can barely manage 9:30's even really maxing out.
I would be interested in hearing about the "subjective" experience of slowing down from others. What does your running now "feel like" compared to your running back in the day?
This sounds about right, especially #3 and 4. (I'm only 45 but have more than 90,000 miles in the last 30 years.)
If you were trying to run a sub 4 minute mile at 30, a 60 you
are trying to break 5. Accept that. Hard on the hard days, and
run without a watch for recovery.
cgray,
What kind of mileage were you running in your 40's? What kind of training were you doing to run those kinds of times? Did you focus much on speed work, or was it more tempo type running?
I chimed in a bit on the first page; not exactly replying to popular demand here, but here's a summary of regression and response to aging.
Been running for over 30 years, peaked mid 20s to early 30s (mid-low 15s for 5K), declined rapidly during late 30s (to high 16s), fought back for a few years (mid 16s) during early 40s, fell apart until mid 40s (18s, but barely trained), fought back again late 40s and early 50s (low 17s).
In my early 50s I'm running better than at any time since 42.
Things that have worked:
good base throughout the year, including substantial cross training. I train about 400 hr/year, with decent mileage through running season (50s to 70s/week).
going very easy on recovery days
modifying V02 type workouts, doing 50 to 70% of workout and not hammering, just getting some specific training
consistenly adding speed work, but very short sessions (1 mile or less/week)
consistent tempo runs
maintaining long runs/workouts throughout the year (1.5 to 3 hr)
form drills
I was running between 50-60 miles per week in my early 40's. More good steady effort pace and longer intervals with short rest. Also help chasing Mark Curp in those days too. We used to live 400m apart in KC and would run 4 -5 times a week together.
Bum wrote:
I try to add in strides whenever my legs feel light and loose, which unfortunately is pretty rare. I like doing them on the down hills to minimize the stress on them (gradual downhills I mean).
I've found that uphills help my strength but kill my speed, especially long uphills, and I'm better off running uphills steadily and within myself, rather than hard. Also my improvement with uphills in training is quite rapid.
The downhills usually improve my speed, probably because downhills develop coordination and relaxation at high speeds. Once learned, I have been able to fly down the hills with very little effort at high speed. Unfortunately there are few good hills around here to train on.
I feel that developing one's speed on the flats connects well with having a good speed on the downhills, and especially on the flats. Comparatively, uphill sprints have never helped my speed much at all.
Interesting feedback here. Here is what happened to me- I could run under 16 min for 5K between age 40-45 (also ran 2 hr 30s for the marathon), under 17 between age 45-49 (2hr 45 marathon), under 18 between age 50-54 (2 hr 50s marathon), and now I just turned 56 and have yet to break 18 since turning 55 although i can ave under 6 min /mile for 3 miles so I am close. I also ran 2 hr 55. I've gone to more intervals than when I was younger, and there is clearly benefit to improving leg strength and range of motion as we age. The problem is doing that stuff consistently. Recently I've added the 6 x 50-60 meter strides after most distance workouts. It's become essential for me to take it easy the day prior to a key interval workout or longer runs.
This all great info.More more more
Everybody on here wants to age with grace and grow old and slow. I have been on testosterone for years and feel great with not side effects. Go for it.
xyzrunner wrote:
Everybody on here wants to age with grace and grow old and slow. I have been on testosterone for years and feel great with not side effects. Go for it.
Has it helped delay or reverse the "slowing down" that comes with age?
50 and Slowing wrote:
I'm very near 50. Up through my 40s and into my early 40s, I was running fairly fast and doing well in my age group. As I approach 50, I'm still about the same type of runner as always (running since 1973), but my wheels are falling-off fast. Since turning 45 or so, I seem to be slowing significantly, maybe more so than my fellow runners. I realize people age at different rates. However, do most people experience a large slow-down from ages 45 thru 50?
I'm 47, and in 2009, I had a Big Slowdown from the previous year, and I'm left scratching my head. But....I think I have to face facts, and I do believe that a big change will occur from 45-50. We can get pissed off about it, or, we can continue to enjoy running, and being runners.
Well taken comments to be sure. Inclusion of the sprints has been a challenge. However, the pure speed work is critical in terms of staving off neuro-muscular declines.
Mr. Conundrum wrote:
How do you handle speed work? I have done track work (400s and 800s) but lately I just been been doing tempo runs. I don't want to give up on speed work but I don't want to risk injury either.
I do stuff like 6-8x3 min on forest trails. I allows me to get an high intensity workout without having to run really fast.
Yeah, I'm leaning towards doing a regular "speed" work session. As you have probably noted elsewhere Driske I have started adding some barefoot grass "sprints" over 100-200m. It certainly helps me to feel like I can run faster, not sure whether it will happen on raceday but I'm hoping.
Count your blessings, at least you folks CAN do speedwork. Over the last 3 years I get chronic hip overuse about 10 to 14 days after I start doing even occasional speedworkouts. So racing is out for me, but running for fitness is still enjoyable, just not fast.
I think the deal for me is an imbalance in my stride or alignment as a side effect of a major meniscus tear 4 years ago. While the knee eventually healed without resorting to surgery, once I got above 6 mile runs I noticed that the opposite side of my body has consistently had issues in the lower back and hip - it starts out as chronic tiredness, and if it goes too long it can turn into stress fracture of the hip, which occurred in 2007 and which occured as muscle pain in the hip three more times forcing about 2 months down time. Each time the pain got worse with either speedwork or mileage buildup.
So I'm not even thinking of racing, but still really enjoy my three 10 mile runs each week, at an easy pace about 3 or 4 minutes slower than my 10 mile race pace 9 years ago. On another note, I can do speedwork on a treadmill, but the damn things are just too boring for me, so I don't use them unless there is no other way for me to run.
This has been a great thread for us 50ish runners. Does anyone have any interest in a weekly 50ers training/race thread? I know there's a masters thread which is great but there's a big difference between 40s and 50s. I think we can relate better to our week to week struggles/gains and provide continous feedback and help for each other. Would anyone participate on a somewhat weekly basis? Should we at least give it a shot for a few weeks?
cgray,
I live in the KC area, and have always been a big fan of both you and Mark Curp. I've always wondered how you have competed at such a high level for so long. I took off running for 13 years, and just started up again last year at age 46. So, I'm trying to get a grasp of the "slow down" that will occur in the future, and how my training will play into it. I was able to run well this year off of 50 mpw 16:46 5k and 4:23 1500, and I am currently moving up to 60 mpw now for the fall. I'm thinking about more in the spring, but now I'm wondering about how higher mileage might affect running in my 50's. Your running less now that you did in your 40's, but is that because your are doing duathlons, or because your legs can't take the higher mileage? Looking back to your 40's, is there anything you would do different, and far a longevity goes, based on what you know today? Also, Mark doesn't seem to race as much as he used to. Is he just taking a break, or does he have injuries issues?