greatest white runner? VIREN

C'mon somebody mention JOHN WALKER!!! The guy was a god! Also ranked up there Seb Coe, Ovett, Cram (all great men) and does Fermin Cacho count as white?

Walker: 1st under 3:50 & WR, 1st runner in World history with a total 100+ sub 4s with two under 3:50!, GOLD 1500 in 1976(without FBayi..kinda an ouch), WR at 2000. How many OGames did he run 2-3-4? Very great white runner indeed!

hey wrote:

virin <

><> blood <><> doper <><>

FACT: geb<

timo wrote:

Viren in two Olympics 4 golds and a fifth place, show me another distance runner that has done that.

Actually: Zatopek in two Olympics had 4 golds and silver. But they were different eras, Viren is quite a reasonable answer.

My favorites: Viren, Zatopek, Shorter, Nurmi, Clarke.

The milers are a whole 'nother category: Snell, Ryun, Coe, Elliot, Ovett -- all studs.

Spider wrote:

timo wrote:

Viren in two Olympics 4 golds and a fifth place, show me another distance runner that has done that.

Actually: Zatopek in two Olympics had 4 golds and silver. But they were different eras, Viren is quite a reasonable answer.

My favorites: Viren, Zatopek, Shorter, Nurmi, Clarke.

The milers are a whole 'nother category: Snell, Ryun, Coe, Elliot, Ovett -- all studs.

The mile is one area where the E. Africans are comparably weak. I'd take Ryun on potential alone, against any E. African. Of course, that's against a drug free E. African. Ryun's last 1200 of 2:46 on dirt in crummy conditions in his 1500 record puts him right in it with today's juiced stars. Same goes for Coe and Cram. Coe ran his 3:29 1500 when he was well past his prime. Cram's conditioning in '85, never mind his other stellar performances, puts him at the top as well. And these guys were racers, winning and losing of course, but racers.

hey wrote:

virin <

><> blood <><> doper <><>

Because it has been mentioned so much, please explain what he has been accused of doing, as it would be interesting to read. Thank you

Although he didnt pan out like coe, viren, Zatopek, Paavo; Herb Elliot has to be the most talented whire runner ever. He trained minimally, retired around 26(?) and NEVER lost a 1500 or 1609.

It is interesting how the mile seems to go through different "eras"of 3-6 years- either a single, dominating runner, OR two roughly equal opponents who trade records titles, etc.. Elliot> Snell> Ryun v. Keino> Walker v. Bayi> Ovett v. Coe> Cram v. Aouita> Morceli> ElG.

Pat Mandera (running for Indiana!)kicked Virgin's ass at the Central Collegiates and at the NCAAs at Spokane. He was also whipping Virgin in the Big Ten X meet at the Savoy golf course at Champaign)when an official "neglected" to tell Mandera he had missed a turn thud allowing Craigey to win. Pat Mandera of Cicero Illinois is one of the greatest unsung heroes (along with Glenn Herold of Wisconsin)of 1970s midwest distance running.

Anybody ever hear of Peter Snell? Read his book "No Bugles, No Drums". He was awesome! Walker says Snell would have run a 1:41 800m on todays tracks. He broke Elliot's mile record on a grass track (3:54.1) in Wanguani for Christ's sake and had to run the last 2 1/2 laps alone.

Speaking of Ryun, in the video Snell mentions how, at the anniversary party in London of the sub-4 minute mile, Jim Ryun was the ONLY famous miler present who got a standing ovation when he was introduced. His peers (Ovett, Coe, Walker) like El G and others know this guy was way ahead of his time.

Herb Elliot retired at 21. Yikes.

Ryun was farther ahead of his time than anyone.

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Searching for Jimmy Ryun

by Greg Hitchcock (www.slowtwitch.com) 6.4.01

A week ago Alan Webb, 18 of Reston, Virginia broke a high school track record that many people thought might stand forever. Back in 1965, Jim Ryun of East High in Wichita, Kansas beat the world's best miler, Peter Snell of New Zealand, to set the American high school record of 3:55.3 in San Diego. Webb broke that imposing record at the Prefontaine Classic in Eugene, by running 3:53.43 in a race won by today's best miler, Hicham El Guerrouj of Morocco.

A lot has been said about that tremendous run and about Webb. He has great talent. He is physically developed for a high school senior. He combines speed (48 second 400 meter) with endurance (second at the national high school 5000 meter cross country to another high school phenom), much like Ryun. Webb has trained hard, but nowhere near the level of Ryun in terms of volume. Webb ran a very intelligent race, staying well within his ability until the last lap, when he blazed 55 seconds for the final 400 meters, passing many world class milers to finish 5th. Webb may be the best American miler right now.

Ryun was similarly a supreme talent -- many consider him to be the most talented of all the great milers, from Bannister, to Elliot, to Coe, to Aouita, to Morceli and El Guerrouj. He trained incredibly hard in high school, once doing 40 times 400 meters in 69 seconds. He made meaningless the term "prep" star since he was preparing for no future, but giving everything in his high school present. He made an Olympic team between his junior and senior year in high school. Combining that talent with that hard work, he put up a record that seemed unapproachable.

There is a gnawing belief among cognoscente of the mile that if Ryun had been well-coached he could have run 3:45 for the mile -- even without the "rabbits" and high tech shoes and tracks of today, never mind drugs -- and dominated the sport for over a decade. Instead he had a career that mixed brilliance with major disappointments....

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Ryun ran the last 1200 of his 1500 record in 2:46, unreal considering how hot it was (over 100 degrees on the track) and that the track was dirt. His 800 record was run 53/51. He would have been behind the field at the 800 in this World's, then would have run by them on the last lap. And that was his second race in 90 minutes. Bizarre. His second mile record was set almost by accident, he thought he was running a slow time, for him. He said he felt ready to run another one right when he crossed the line. Incredible natural talent. All without drugs. Ah, what might have been. But we say that about so many runners anyway. What could Van Damme have done if not killed at age 21? Pre? He would have run faster, no doubt.

Best white long distance runner? Lasse Viren on honors, Ron Clarke on records.

Middle distances? Ryun the most talented, but Coe on overall performance, with Cram right there.

Whiter shade of pale wrote:

There is a gnawing belief among cognoscente of the mile that if Ryun had been well-coached he could have run 3:45 for the mile -- .....

The bottom line is DID HE ???

As with Webb will he???

you're the complete idiot. i never said anything bad about stewart (yes, his name is stewart, not steward) and never said anything in relation to stewart to prefontaine. maybe you should check who you're replying to, gary, you f***ing tart.

Gary wrote:

You complete idiot, did you not get it first time when i said Ian Steward never rated Pre,he raced him aprox. 10 times and never lost to him,Pre was shit end of story

Richard Kimball. He ran forever chasing that one armed f***er.

I am so f***ing sick of people saying Prefontaine is better than Viren or had more heart. Viren atleast didn't get drunk and drive home.

Eastside wrote:

I am so f***ing sick of people saying Prefontaine is better than Viren or had more heart. Viren atleast didn't get drunk and drive home.

How could people mention Pre as one of the greatest ever? Maybe in terms of the US, but he didn't make much of a dent at the world level. If he'd have lived, he would probably have gotten a silver at the 76 games in the 10k, and have been trounced in the 5k over the last 200. Then he'd have stuck with the 10k later on, as Liquori and other guys would have whipped him. Just like JFK, he was killed at the right time, to make him an undeserved legend.

Viren is one of the greatest runners ever, no matter what color we're talking about.