Waldemar Cierpinski - training secrets to beat Shorter

Listen you fool, just because someting isn't on the internet or it isn't available in english doesn't mean it's not true. Another poster provided perfectly reasonable documentation previously.

The east german doping program was meticulously documented by the stasi. The documents have not been placed on the internet for any number of reasons, not the least of which is that they are voluminous. The sheer number of people that are culpable is another reason.

There wasn't an east german athlete of his era who wasn't dirty, so please get your head out of your ass.

For all of those people saying what a nice guy that Cierpinski was and is - you're all full of shit. He was a stasi informer - how nice is that? How many people got taken away in the middle of the night on this guy's say-so?

Remember, everyone though OJ was a nice guy too.

dmb wrote:

For all of those people saying what a nice guy that Cierpinski was and is - you're all full of shit. He was a stasi informer - how nice is that? How many people got taken away in the middle of the night on this guy's say-so?

Not like that doesn't happen in the U.S. today.

What kind of an informer are you?

I never said WC didn't use drugs. I simply said that all the people saying that there is public clear documenation of his guilt SHOULD PROVIDE IT, YOU IMBECILE. People also come on here and say "everyone knows Salazar cheated, there is documentation of his ordering steroids," yet I have never seen a single shred of evidence of those documents. if you want to say: I am sure WC cheated, and here's all the strong circumstanial evidence to point to it, JUST SAY SO. (just as I am sure FloJo cheated, but have no "absolute proof" of it). Just stop saying "oh, everyone's read the documents with his name on it." PRODUCE THE F'n DOCUMENTS OR SHUT THE HELL UP ABOUT EVERYONE HAVING SEEN THEM. Apparently only Frank Shorter has seen them, and that's not good enough for me.

You think WC cheated? fine, you are probably right. I am just tired of people making up "proof" if they haven't actually seen such proof, and instead believing as gospel any allegation they want to believe. It would be like you saying "of course OJ killed 2 people, everyone knows there is a video of it, and lots of people saw the video...." That would be a bunch of bull -shit. If not, put it on youtube. Did OJ do it? Of course, and I could give you 100 reasons why. But I won't say there is a video of the crime, if I don't know if it exists or not and have never actually met or talked to anyone who has seen such a video, just as posters on here shouldn't say there is defintely documentation of WC's drug use, if they are not sure such documentation actually exists.

Is that too fine of a point for you, dimwit??

Oh yeah, go F*** youself.

Exactly.

old tymer wrote:

Everything you say is true, but you exaggerate the overall quality of his career.

Ridiculous. Offhand, I can think of at least five world records at a very wide range of distances -- two miles (with an extreme negative split), 5,000 meters, 10,000 meters (in an very erratically paced and tactical Olympic final where he was tripped and fell on to the infield in the middle of the race), 20k on the roads, and 25k on the roads. Add in four Olympic gold medals, a low-2:13 fifth-place finish in the Olympic marathon -- his first marathon ever -- eighteen hours after winning the Olympic gold in an exceptionally strong field, and a 27:50 in the 1980 Olympic 10,000 final eight years after he set the world record in that event (and he was still leading with 400 meters to go against a trio of Ethiopean runners who were using all kinds of team tactics to beat him). Who else in the history of distance running has had a comparable career? Perhaps Zatopek, maybe Geb, and arguably Bekele. That's about it.

As for Viren's performances prior to 1972, he was still improving very rapidly. He didn't start training under Haikkola until late 1970. But after he adjusted to the high mileage and high altitude training, he was easily the best distance runner in the world.

Einstein said of people like you "a brain stem would have sufficed"

In essence, you are the intellectual equivalent of a limp dick. Why don't you go to a local library and do a literature search and find the reams and reams of documentation of the east german doping machine? Not everything in life can be found with a google search. Then you can come back and apologize for your staggering ignorance if you are man enough - judging from your comments so far, I doubt it.

dmb wrote:

funny - no mention of drugs?

peddle that bs somewhere else

Actually there was something very specific about drugs; the author claims he was drug free.

The Stasi papers would lead me to think otherwise.

Also the claim of training 25 hours per week would actually support the allegations of drugs in order to recover from such a training load.

stop the cheating wrote:

There is no statute of limitations for murder or drug cheating....Cierpinski did not have epo (which is so potent and can improve a distance runner tremendously) but he still dabbled in drugs and cheated.

The IOC did institute a statute of limitations on revoking medals for drug charges.

Sceptic wrote:

Would the anabolic steroids he was given actually helped in training for Marathons?

Yes, it helps in recovery-or could.

Paddy O\\\\\\\'F wrote:

old tymer wrote:

(

I suspect that this is largely myth--a myth we create, given all the movies and TV shows we've seen in which, in the end, virtue triumphs and vice receives it's "just" punishment. Unrotunately, real life isn't always like that.

)

FLO JO

LYLE ALZADO

CYCLISTS DIED WHO DID EPO BEFORE THEY GOT DOCTORS TO THIN THE BLOOD LIKE THEY DO NOW.

GEB TOOK 14 ASPIRIN A DAY TO THIN HIS EPO....

DRUGS ARE CHEATING.

While Alzado admitted to taking steroids, they is little medical evidence to suggest they had anything to do with his death.

You write with authority about your suspicions of his blood doping. You must know something the rest of us don't.Vaantainen trained alone hence the name " the lone wolf".

Viren also did well at the 74 Euros despite injury and a shortened build up to the championships. His only focus was the Olympics with secondary focus on the Euros. Races often were treated as development in his training.

I don't think it is onions they are growing in Afghanstan right now

Have you done that search you mention? No one is disputing the existence of the East German doping program. What is questioned is whether Cierpinski's name is on any lists of those involved with the program and if he was given anything or whether everyone is responding to someone else's testimony that the lists exist and that Cierpinski is on them. The BALCO lists were made public and we've actually seen some of the names. The longer I hear of the existence of the EG lists without actually seeing one made public the more I wonder if they really do exist.

No, I'm not likely to go and do that search. It doesn't matter that much to me, but I am interested enough that I'd certainly take a look if someone else cares enough to run that search.

This thread has gotten completely ridiculous. Yes, it is documented that Cierpinski doped. It's not all that interesting what training he did, because his ability to do that training was made possible by his drug-taking.

HRE wrote:

Have you done that search you mention? No one is disputing the existence of the East German doping program. What is questioned is whether Cierpinski's name is on any lists of those involved with the program and if he was given anything or whether everyone is responding to someone else's testimony that the lists exist and that Cierpinski is on them. The BALCO lists were made public and we've actually seen some of the names. The longer I hear of the existence of the EG lists without actually seeing one made public the more I wonder if they really do exist.

No, I'm not likely to go and do that search. It doesn't matter that much to me, but I am interested enough that I'd certainly take a look if someone else cares enough to run that search.

No I'm not going to do the search for you. I'll tell you what, if you're too lazy to go to the library and use a proper database, you can use google "scholar" and get a feel for what's out there. Type in "East German Doping"

Better yet email Werner Franke himself and ask:

. He has identified WC in the stasi doping records.

Seriously though, I'm bored with this. Anyone who thinks there were clean East German athletes in that era is badly misinformed or stupid and isn't even worth contempt. I suspect that there is a certain amount of anti-american sentiment behind some of the posts here. Probably an insecure canadian started the thread.

BTW - I'm all for stripping known dirty athletes of medals no matter when they won them. In my book, Tyler Hamilton doesn't deserve to be a gold medalist. Apparently the IOC doesn't give a shit about my book though.

EXACTLY.

Of course I don't really expect you to go to a library and do the search for me. But your answer also implies that you haven't done such a search. So what's the basis for your comment that sucha search would reveal the lists and Cierpinski's name?

I did do the google search and found no lists, a few names, and mention of a lawsuit by 190 former DDR athletes who were doped against the company that made the dope. It does not say if Cierpinski is one of those athletes. I'm pretty much left where I was when the thread started, i.e. knowing that there are documents proving that there was doping in the DDR but not knowing if Cierpinski's name turns up in any of thsoe documents or not.

I could write to Franke, though I sort of hate to bother him. Have you written to him?

And I agree with you about stripping athletes of emdals if they were dopers no matter how long ago the medals were won. But as I watch this thread unfurl, I'm also aware of the possibility of a witchunt.

This thread has gotten completely ridiculous. Yes, it must be documented that Frank Snorter doped. Just look it up in the library. It's not all that interesting what training he did, because his ability to do that training was made possible by his drug-taking.

Maybe his name was on the list or some protocols. However, it doesn't mean he took the drugs. The East German system/network of officials was corrupt too. Perhaps an official covered for him? What would you do if you would be force to take the drugs or otherwise your family would be in trouble for the rest of your life?

BTW his WC's son just completed a marathon in 2:24. A former Duathlete, who is planning now to focus fully on the marathon aiming for next Olympics.

Weenie, did you imagine that that response to Dusty was in some way clever, mature, or meaningful?