6 and 4 stage relays

northern snore then wrote:

Mo Farah was 27 seconds quicker than the 2nd fastest not 40, the fact that he is running 13.10 and 7.38 suggests that the likes of McLean and Mays are in great shape also. Don't forget, the likes of Bowden and Mays ran 8.20 odd steeples this summer, and 3.40 1500's, added to that Mark Miles who is in very good shape was only about 10th fastest. Mike Skinner, more than a only just in the top 20 times, Steve Sharp likewise.

The Tickners just squeezed in the top 10 times and they are sub 14.00 boys.

Please shut up, you're making me embarrassed to be southern.

A few stats:

Year - Runners under 18:00 - Time for 20th place

2002 - 7 - 18:18

2003 - 4 - 18:20

2004 - 3 - 18:16

2005 - 5 - 18:18

2006 - 8 - 18:28

So you can see that the top 10 were pretty good compared to the immediate past, with 8 under 18 mins, but the conditions were pretty good. The times fall off dramatically after this though with 20th place a pedestrian 18:28. I ran 18:23 myself a couple of years ago, about the same as Skinner, better than Sharp, and I'm rubbish.

It is September and the track season has just finished. Most people have just started running again after a break. No one will be in shape this time of year who has aspirations for a successful track season in 2007. That's why you're rubbish and are probably a minute behind Skinner at 5000m at your best but can run the same time when it doesn't matter. Capiche?

i love lamp

northern snore then wrote:

Morpeths team is poor, of the 6 who ran on Saturday I wouldn't see any of them running a sub 30 10k at the moment. A full strength Leeds team would have beaten them easily. Even with McCormick in the team I wouldn't expect them to win. No disrespect to the Northern boys who ran well but the likes of McGlory and McCleod who were fastest individuals would not be in the top 20 times at the Southern.

Yes but the legs were 5k, not 10k. And the race is a team effort. Morpeth's six all had times within seconds of each other. You don't necessarily need any sub 30min 10k runners to win an area six stage. They should be in the medals at the Nationals, especially with McCormick and I Hudspith.

That said they will have to up their game to beat either NEB or a full strength Belgrave at Sutton Park. Your winner will definitely come from one of these three teams.

Salford will not figure without Andi Jones. Similarly Altrincham if Andy Norman is still out injured as expected. For an outside bet for a Northern team, Sale would be your best bet. Liverpool were full strength at the Northerns and even with the same team will struggle to make the top 6 at Sutton Park.

I'm a Northerner that ran the Southern, I did 17.57 this year for 7th fastest, it is the first year I've been in good shape for this race as I'm preparing for the GNR, I would imagine people like Skinner, Sharpe are not in great shape after having had a break following the track season. I think the standard at the Southern was slightly better in terms of the top 10 times but the depth was poor. There was a few people who surprised me at the Northern, how old is Ricky Stevenson? He ran within 17 seconds of the fastest time, think he is 17/18. Good run by McGlory.

The good thing about the Southern is because the course doesn't change you can compare your times to previous years, right back to the 80's and 90's so it is easier to judge performances, and this year was not too bad.

I can't see anybody getting within a minute of a full strength Newham team. If they could put out:

Hepples

Geele

Farah

East

Warmby

Mitchinson

DWardle wrote:

There was a few people who surprised me at the Northern, how old is Ricky Stevenson? He ran within 17 seconds of the fastest time, think he is 17/18.

Ricky is nearly 18 he ran really well but on 1st leg it is much easier to run quickly, great run though from a big talent.

I think a lot of people compare the results of northern & southern and not many of the guys in the fastest laps at the northern are as well known names or the sort who've made top 6 in the national & inter counties recently whereas the southern had the likes of Mo, Tickners, Miles, Noad, Skinner, Mays, Bowden as well as East ie. regular/recent internationals. The northern on the other hand was missing the likes of Riley, Vernon and McCormick. Ford & Sutton are clearly top athletes but are not as well known over here due to being based in the states recently along with Goodliffe. Speaking impartially as a northerner based in the south, I'm sure there won't be a lot to choose between the times of the top southern & northern runners come the national and I'll be interested to see what McGlory can do round Sutton Park - he's improving fast.

The guy who said conditions were perfect at the southern obviously did not run cos it was very humid and most people I spoke to struggled with the conditions and their times were down on expected or previous years, which shows the quality of those runs under 18 mins. Shame Mo didn't go for it from the start cos Bristow's record would have gone. Incidentally what do people reckon the difference is between your southern time & national time - 30 secs maybe?

With Alty seemingly not at full strength this year I'll probably be supporting Wells at the National as the small club with a realistic medal shout.

These relays come pretty soon after the track season and for me the southerns is just about getting round half decent and then training hard for the nationals.

On another topic which is still relevent because of all the talk about structuring winter training and racing so early in the winter season. But does anyone else think it is appalling that UKA have still not published their selection criteria for the European Cross (3 months away), the World Cross and even next summers World Track Championships? You can find on the IAAF website the IAAF standards for the 2007 track championships so surely UKA can produce their own standards and selection criteria?

Dave Collins and his team go on about long term planning and structured training plans but how are athletes meant to plan their winter training and racing schedule if they don’t know what the selection criteria is to qualify for teams and which races they need to do to achieve selection.

Most athletes would sit down with their coach at the beginning of the season/winter training (September) and plan and goal set for the up coming winter this is difficult to do without the criteria and races which they need to achieve to represent Great Britain.

I agree that the selection policies for the Cross Country meets should be out, but historically they have not been published until about now - that doesnt make it right.

The Euro selection is bound to be the same as ever, trials at Liverpool on 25th October, first 3 or 4 guaranteed etc etc. Slight complication with the Euro U23 race this year, is it an 'exhibition' race or whatever, it isnt a championship this year.

The World Cross Trials will be more complicated for sure. As for Osaka, UKA will just have to use the IAAF standards, trials at AAA's, at Manchester again, on 28/29 July.

What about the Ekiden relays? Are GB sending male and female teams? Do any selection criteria exist? Should the new UKA site not contain useful information such as this?

ummpayattention wrote:

It is September and the track season has just finished. Most people have just started running again after a break. No one will be in shape this time of year who has aspirations for a successful track season in 2007. That's why you're rubbish and are probably a minute behind Skinner at 5000m at your best but can run the same time when it doesn't matter. Capiche?

What an odd post. I'm only pointing out the southerns weren't of as high a standard as has been claimed, not saying that people should be fitter this time of year. Don't know what Skinner's best is but I've run sub 14:10 so I would suggest I probably am within a minute of him, and still rubbish.

I must admit that I havnt looked at the 'new' UKA website. I believe that UKA will send mens and womens teams to the Ekiden, and yes the policy should be on the new site. As I said before the policies for the Euro and World Cross are usually declared about this time each year, sometimes earlier.

Dave Collins does not even have an opinion on the Euro Cross, World Cross or Ekiden selection policies - except that they should not stop athletes being in shape for the events he does care about i.e. Olympic events. If it isnt Lottery Funded, then it isnt on Dave Collins agenda.

Everyone seems to be writing off the Midlands but Tipton looked very good, espeically considering there depth (3 teams in the top 20). Phil Nicholls looked really comfortable and still blitzed round, Burton was equally impressive and they have a whole heap of experience road runners to draw upon such as Hinch, Stirk, Mitchell and Williams. Also what about Notts, yes a distant 4th at the regionals but if you throw Warburton and Talbot into that team with Raeside, Tim Hartley and Birchall I'm sure the Midlands will be up there and definitly in with a shout for a medal [quote]Its a lottery wrote:

Whoever said that conditions at the southerns were perfect is so wrong. Everyone had sweat dripping from them and i found the conditions very difficult, for the first 4 legs the heat was phenomenal and would have had an effect on the times ran, especially after such a cold month.

NOT THAT GOOD REALLY, are you Nick Altman?

Such a cold month? Its not been cold yet

you what? wrote:

Whoever said that conditions at the southerns were perfect is so wrong. Everyone had sweat dripping from them and i found the conditions very difficult, for the first 4 legs the heat was phenomenal and would have had an effect on the times ran, especially after such a cold month.

Nah! too many people overestimate the effects of a little bit of sunshine. It was only three and a half miles or so, it wasn't a marathon. Yes, you probably felt a bit hotter than normal but you're talking a couple of seconds a mile not 30seconds. Get over it. September has often produced hot days.