Jim Ryun - Best of History's Top 7 milers.

I agree with you hole soulily ... you are absolutely correct ... except for the fact that we are talking about the very best healthy male Milers in the History of the World. What did Scotty run? 3:47 and change correct. Beside this, he ran over 100 times below the magic mark ...

this is simply, why he belongs to the group. Dear friend,

I didn't say he was the best ... only that he belongs to the

Select Group of 7.

Jim Ryun is the Best of the entire Kingdom.

I can't argue with you though ... that if Masterkova were

a man ... she would have been a slow one at 4:12 .... as a women ... she is a master.

Do you guys not realise why Scott has the most sub 4 miles? Because El G, Morceli, etc. ran the mile once a year in Oslo? Why not look at who has run the most sub 3:42.7 1500s in history and not include the mile? Do you not see that sub 4 is a good time, but doesn't even get you into the US trials? All it shows is that Scott raced more than most at a fairly average level in world terms all year round (taking in Aus/NZ summer season too). I bet you won't find many non Americans that would even think of putting Scott or Ryun in a top 10 list. I'm afraid there have been no Americans up there with the greatest of all time. You also have to remember that people peak at different ages and what Ryun ran at 17 has no bearing on his level of talent and potential. He improved very little from that age because he was already training so hard. Graham Williamson was as good at the same age (as was Cram) yet you most of you haven't heard of him or would include him in your top 100.

Racial bias??? Please please please ... Two of my kids are from central america and one is from mejico. They are all

a little darker then my irish skin. I have no racial bias

and am greatly insulted by your total lack of disrespect

and sensitivity.

My, humble opinion, is that the

GREAT 7 MILERS IN WORLD HISTORY

make up the list I wrote. I thought

nothing of skin color until your discriminating

eyes pointed it out. I only looked for excellance,

domination and facts. Any of the guys on my list

could have run 3:26 or better ... most of them had

better speed then the El G fulla ... most of them

had longer and more prolific careers even if they

did not win as many championships as Lagat.

Ultimately, this is my opinion ... you are welcome to

yourn and I am interested in it. You could even put

together an all black list ... or a coffee and cream

mix ... I will not be offended or call you a racist.

I demand, humbly, an apology from you and any others who

inferred that my list is racially motivated.

Jim Ryun is still the King of the Kingdom of Milers and

his name is written in the Book of Milers that will go

on and on.

speaking of mindless ...

sheister wrote:

what a pile of shite this thread has been, mindless trolls giving the U.S. a bad name. Keino owned Ryun when it counted. Period. Ryuns record did not stand for long before nearly 4 people went under it in one race, he was a great miler, he is not top 10 all time material.

Ryun's record stood the longest of any mile record.

(Well, if you say they don't take a back seat to any one, than why are we even having this debate. Times speak for themselves, and right now, their times aren't the best... so shelf your own argument)

Gaddy, Barry Bonds hit 76 home runs, and El G. ran a 3:43 mile and Ben Johnson won the gold medal..... I'm curious, what part of "cheating druggie" don't you understand?

Barry Bonds also has more than one connection to the balco scandal, including a trainer who has served prison time because he refuses to testify. Bonds also has numerous other steriod accusations that have validity and accuracy other than, "He hit 76 home runs, he must be on drugs".

Ben Johnson Tested Positive for Steroids. Simple as that.

El G has never tested positive for anything, nor has ever been linked to any type of EPO scandal. He simply ran fast times and people speculate. SPECULATE is the key word here. Its different when there is evidence agains an athlete, such as the bonds case you refer to, but the only evidence you have against El G is his Times... ummmmmmm Ok, once again, its sad that this is what other cheats have done to our sports.

There are a few things I would like to point out that maybe you can offer some sort of legitamate retort. First, look how consistent EL G was. That guy ran fast times all year, always performed. Most dopers have a cycle that allows them a window of benifit. If they stay on too long, they fail tests. Every time he won a meet, or broke a record, or won a medal, he was tested. That guy was tested as much as anyone else in the world... never failed and never had ratios that were questionable. So bury your speculation deep inside, wether you think he was on drugs or not (which you can't honestly prove) and think objectively for one second. You would honestly say, that taking your speculation out of the mix here, that EL G wasn't the best ever.... then you're blind.

Also, its the same case with trying to say Jim Ryun, given better tracks or shoes could have ran a 3:43 mile. Well tell me this, if ryun could do it with better technology, than why is it so ludacris to think that someone in our time, like EL G, with the faster tracks and shoes that we have, can't run 3:43 without being subject to snoby trolls who scream the drug card.

The simple facts are that generations of athletes usually become better than the ones before. If you made a List of say, Top 7 most influential Milers... than I would say Jim Ryun is probably near the top. But Greatest Milers of All Time, and you don't have EL G or Morcelli... your just fooling yourself.

ELG takes over half the page in the top 1500's ever run, over a course of like 6 or 7 years... and never tests positive, if that isn't an indication he was clean, I don't know what is...

I wish all these damn trolls would stop posting. everytime i read one of their posts i lose a few IQ points. for the sake of everyone of normal intelligence on letsrun please get the f*** out

one of the greatest letsrun posts ever...hands down.

I can't even believe how stupid the creator of this list is. I mean seriously, it's blowing my mind. Go back to recess little one, because you are making no sense, and everyone here is laughing at you.

Easy wrote:

one of the greatest letsrun posts ever...hands down.

I agree, I almost fell off my chair.

If theres one guy that is not on this list, that should be,

and I feel bad in not placing him there ... but 7 is the perfect number, so he didn't fit. But, long story short,

Ali Webb should be on the list ... I just do not think He is

quite up to the over all quality of the rest ... difficult decision though I must say.

As for Said, Hicham, Noreddine ... yes, they have times even a little better then some of the guys on the list, but ... they just don't have the jam to even make it into

the top three if there were to be a race with all 11; (must

include Webb as possible rabbit). These guys are just too

skinny and would not have the strength of elbow to make it up through the pack.

Oh, hey, don't fall of your chair ...eh.

You're logic is flawless. hahahahaha

I was going to reply, but then I realized that you must be joking. Its fabulous.

I'm not going to get into this discussion, but to even think of including Bannister in this list shows a complete lack of knowledge of the history of mile athletes. Bannister himself would, and has, said the same.

Not a direct reply to the poster above me but a culmination of several post.

This whole notion of diffrent eras running faster during this time is absurd. Do you really think that Jim Ryun would have cut down 10 seconds off his time with better training(he was doing what people do now, and are succesful off of) or better technology(as somebody said earlier, Seb Coe's 1000 record stood for nearly 20 years and was run on cinder). I say Ryun MIGHT have run 3:49 with these "advances" in technology. And don't lecture me about running on a cinder track, I train on one everyday. Yeah it does suck, but as somebody said earlier, how fast could say Walter George run if he ran on cinder? Do you think your training that you do know is any diffrent then what Cerruity and Lydard were doing, or any diffrent then the interveils that Zatopek did? Hate to burst your bubble, ITS NOT.

What would be worse than using the possessive "your" in place of the congregated you are "you're”? Why it would have to be using you're as a possessive of course!

I guess “you are logic is flawless” makes great sense to some. It’s whatever floats your boat with the kids these days…

C'mon now ... Bannister was a very part time athlete. He was studying medicine, and though, indeed, serious about

his running, was not 100% devoted to it as todays Pros are.

Most of the worlds greatest runners work out at least twice

daily; sometimes more. They run, eat, visit the massuer,

run their principal workout of the day, do plyometrics, eat,

eat, go for an easy run and sleep. The Kenyans and Morrocans are famous for that.

Point to consider: what if Bannister had worked out half as much as todays greatest and did so without distraction for 5 years after he cracked 4 minutes? I truly believe he would have been WELL under 3:50 for the mile; guess we'll never know how much now, but undoubtedly, he would have.

Did I understand you to mean that Bannister doesn't think he should be on the list? What exactly is it that he said? Sorry, no comprendo.

I'd like to point out that Peter Snell definitely deserves a place on the list. (Walker is probably up there as well - definitely ahead of Steve Scott.) Snell, who lowered the world record twice on grass tracks, and concurrently held the 800m record, was practically unbeatable from 1961-1964.

He could do it all - front-running, devastating kicks, etc. (Plus, he was 5-10 and 170 pounds. Who can say how fast he could have run if he'd lost a few pounds?) Rivals of the era regarded him as superhuman. He was probably one of the most ferocious competitors ever to set foot on the track.

Oh, and he won gold three times total - in the 800 and 1500 in 1964, when he was heavily favoured, and in the 800 in 1960, when he was completely unknown.

http://www.pukeariki.com/en/stories/sport/snell.asp

One last note about Kiwis... every time a New Zealander has gone to the Games as the favorite in the metric mile, he has won it. Jack Lovelock won in 1936, Snell in 1964, and John Walker in 1976. (John Davies, 1964, and Rod Dixon, 1972, also won bronzes as unknowns.)

Compare this to how American milers of the same era fared at the Olympics when favoured: Dyrol Burleson (1960, 64): Choked, got 5th place at best. Jim Ryun (1968, 72, world-record holder, prohibitive favorite): Beaten into the ground, tripped in the heats. Steve Scott (1984, in front of a home crowd): Bizarre tactics, placed 5th. It's too early to give word on Alan Webb but, as evidenced by last year's WC, he doesn't quite have it all worked out yet.

In 2006 Rotich has run a 5:01 2000 metre and a 3:33 1500 metre

at the age of 37. Click on his name on the IAAF 1500 rankings for this seasons details.

I really really agree with you mon. Snell should be

on the list. I think we've run into a major glitch here.

HAVE TO START ANOTHER POST.