You're technically correct in the sad state of current affairs that is California HS sports. However, once upon a time, there were separate boy's (and girl's) divisions where athletes with XX chromosomes were not forced to surrender the top podium spot to biological males (that would be XY). I know it's hard, but picture a time when cheating was not only discouraged by sane meet officials and rational scholastic federation members, but actually prohibited.
This is my view on the entire trans topic. It literally does not matter at all. No girl goes home crying because she was one place back. It literally has no impact on anyone in society. So everyone needs to give it a rest. Also, people need to learn to have empathy. This girl isn't pretending to be a girl. She 100% believes she is a girl. If you tell her she's not, it's like me telling your bioligical son, you're a girl. If you tell her she can't compete, how is that fair to her? It would be like telling the fastest bioligical girl in the country she can't compete because she's winning. Everyone needs to open their eyes and have perspective from both sides. The reality is there is no right answer. Whatever you do, it will be unfair to someone.
You're technically correct in the sad state of current affairs that is California HS sports. However, once upon a time, there were separate boy's (and girl's) divisions where athletes with XX chromosomes were not forced to surrender the top podium spot to biological males (that would be XY). I know it's hard, but picture a time when cheating was not only discouraged by sane meet officials and rational scholastic federation members, but actually prohibited.
Was there any mandatory chromosome test in HS sports, either in California or anywhere else? Who paid for it? Would this person have been disqualified because of her Y chromosome?
This is my view on the entire trans topic. It literally does not matter at all. No girl goes home crying because she was one place back. It literally has no impact on anyone in society. So everyone needs to give it a rest. Also, people need to learn to have empathy. This girl isn't pretending to be a girl. She 100% believes she is a girl. If you tell her she's not, it's like me telling your bioligical son, you're a girl. If you tell her she can't compete, how is that fair to her? It would be like telling the fastest bioligical girl in the country she can't compete because she's winning. Everyone needs to open their eyes and have perspective from both sides. The reality is there is no right answer. Whatever you do, it will be unfair to someone.
Getting to where you are on this from a macro perspective is admirable and in many respects, reasonable. Empathy should be abundant in just about all things, including a person's chosen gender. The problem with your logic from the micro and individual view-point of the disadvantaged competitor though is that it does matter. It matters a lot. Athletically, biological males have distinct genetic advantages over biological females that the XY denial flat-earthers on this thread are not willing to acknowledge. This matters greatly to the female who is pushed aside or has to share a podium spot with someone who has already won before the race or event has even begun.
If someone who was born male wants to ID as a female, I'm all for it. Zero judgment. You do you metaphorically speaking. But I am 100% against biological males being allowed to compete against biological females. It's really that simple and in this respect, there is a right and fair answer.
Intersex and Transgender are not the same thing. This woman has androgen-insensitivity syndrome. Her Y-chromosome produces androgens that would cause male biological characteristics in her body, but the body itself doesn't react to it, so she develops naturally into a female body. The only difference is that she has internal testes instead of ovaries, so she does not get her period or have the capability to get pregnant like the typical woman. AB Hernandez did develop male biological characteristics after birth that cannot be entirely revised or replaced with surgery or hormones. Personally, I'm against Transwomen competing against cisgender women in general because of the obvious biological advantage, but I think the compromise set by the CIF was fair enough, even though it could be improved. AB Hernandez still gets to participate, but her results do not displace or move over a cisgender female's standing. Hernandez seems like a nice person overall and I don't see her general presence to be a huge detriment to her competitors.
Intersex and Transgender are not the same thing. This woman has androgen-insensitivity syndrome. Her Y-chromosome produces androgens that would cause male biological characteristics in her body, but the body itself doesn't react to it, so she develops naturally into a female body. The only difference is that she has internal testes instead of ovaries, so she does not get her period or have the capability to get pregnant like the typical woman. AB Hernandez did develop male biological characteristics after birth that cannot be entirely revised or replaced with surgery or hormones. Personally, I'm against Transwomen competing against cisgender women in general because of the obvious biological advantage, but I think the compromise set by the CIF was fair enough, even though it could be improved. AB Hernandez still gets to participate, but her results do not displace or move over a cisgender female's standing. Hernandez seems like a nice person overall and I don't see her general presence to be a huge detriment to her competitors.
There was never a barrier to AB participating in track in any state. AB was always free to compete.
The thread title is misleading. The actual girls were given their titles to comply with Title IX. Essentially they are establishing a third category to appease their constituency. If that is the value system their voters choose to enact without harming female participation or awards (which would be a title IX violation), so be it. The main issues with trans participation are if females displace or steal titles, roster spots, qualifying spots, etc. from actual girls, are given access to female only facilities like lockers and restrooms where actual females have a right to privacy or in contact sports where there is an increased injury risk for female participants. If this were a track event instead of a field event, I am curious how they would handle lane / hear assignments. You can’t create an extra lane. Anyone have insight into how California addresses this issue?
Most tracks today have nine lanes, especially the ones that host championship meets.
And those nine lanes should go to the top nine females. Additionally, what is the procedure when there are multiple trans athletes in a given event? In one school district in Colorado, there were 61 female roster spots across all sports occupied by trans athletes, so it is not an unrealistic possibility, especially in California.
Most tracks today have nine lanes, especially the ones that host championship meets.
And those nine lanes should go to the top nine females. Additionally, what is the procedure when there are multiple trans athletes in a given event? In one school district in Colorado, there were 61 female roster spots across all sports occupied by trans athletes, so it is not an unrealistic possibility, especially in California.
The total estimate for transgender athletes in California, is 10.
Most tracks today have nine lanes, especially the ones that host championship meets.
And those nine lanes should go to the top nine females. Additionally, what is the procedure when there are multiple trans athletes in a given event? In one school district in Colorado, there were 61 female roster spots across all sports occupied by trans athletes, so it is not an unrealistic possibility, especially in California.
Going to take a law to be an end to this craziness, any adult allowing a boy in a girls sport will do jail time and a fine.
Your thread title is incorrect. The first girls to finish were given the state titles for the 2 events. Did you even read the articles to which you linked?
The girls should not have a share a podium with a boy. The boy is still listed as the first place finisher regardless if they gave the boy, and the true 1st place girl finisher, a 1st place medal. By acknowledging the true 1st place girl and sharing the podium with the boy they are basically admitting allowing boys to compete in girls sports is a complete joke. This should not be happening. Boys/men have zero business competing in girls/women's sports.
That's just like, your opinion, ma'am.
Who cares whether we accept trans women as women? The first place finisher followed the rules in the state of California and even shared the first place spot on the podium with the second finisher. That takes humility and grace, two things that most posters here, me included, won''t accomplish in their lifetime. The shade thrown at the first place finisher is completely unnecessary.
That said, if you are born male, you have an advantage in most sports. That's also irrelevant. Because if you are born male and grown up to becsix feet tall, you will have an advantage in the dating market and many other areas of life. If you are born male and live in East Africa, you will have an advantage in long distance running. The question here is "Is transitioning a choice or are you just being who you are?" I think it's the latter. Reasonable people can disagree.
Before he died, Scott Adams had a really interesting hot take on "men in women's sports." He pointed out that gender classification in sports is fundamentally political. The reason we have male and female categories at all is so that we can reward female excellence; if we wanted to reward excellence in the purist sense, we would simply recognize the best competitors, and far fewer women would appear on podiums and, by extension, play sports at all. Ever the Solomon, Adams said that the issue should be resolved by letting the women who compete have final say on norms of fairness. Since we don't have any complaints from the other competitors in this particular competition, you can make it he argument that the completion was fair.
The girls should not have a share a podium with a boy. The boy is still listed as the first place finisher regardless if they gave the boy, and the true 1st place girl finisher, a 1st place medal. By acknowledging the true 1st place girl and sharing the podium with the boy they are basically admitting allowing boys to compete in girls sports is a complete joke. This should not be happening. Boys/men have zero business competing in girls/women's sports.
That's just like, your opinion, ma'am.
Who cares whether we accept trans women as women? The first place finisher followed the rules in the state of California and even shared the first place spot on the podium with the second finisher. That takes humility and grace, two things that most posters here, me included, won''t accomplish in their lifetime. The shade thrown at the first place finisher is completely unnecessary.
That said, if you are born male, you have an advantage in most sports. That's also irrelevant. Because if you are born male and grown up to becsix feet tall, you will have an advantage in the dating market and many other areas of life. If you are born male and live in East Africa, you will have an advantage in long distance running. The question here is "Is transitioning a choice or are you just being who you are?" I think it's the latter. Reasonable people can disagree.
Before he died, Scott Adams had a really interesting hot take on "men in women's sports." He pointed out that gender classification in sports is fundamentally political. The reason we have male and female categories at all is so that we can reward female excellence; if we wanted to reward excellence in the purist sense, we would simply recognize the best competitors, and far fewer women would appear on podiums and, by extension, play sports at all. Ever the Solomon, Adams said that the issue should be resolved by letting the women who compete have final say on norms of fairness. Since we don't have any complaints from the other competitors in this particular competition, you can make it he argument that the completion was fair.
Highly disingenuous. Girls have complained but most are bullied into silence. Since officials have ended up having this guy share a top podium spot with the actual top girls, it shows that officials do in fact know this situation is completely wrong. People who say it isn’t a big deal generally don’t have children but will go nuts when this fact is mentioned. They also make up stories about the parents of the actual children cherishing the chance to compete against boys who need psychological aid and counseling, not enouragement to indulge in strange behaviors. The confirmation bias and self deception among the crowd supporting this nonsense is rather amazing. And telling.
The girls should not have a share a podium with a boy. The boy is still listed as the first place finisher regardless if they gave the boy, and the true 1st place girl finisher, a 1st place medal. By acknowledging the true 1st place girl and sharing the podium with the boy they are basically admitting allowing boys to compete in girls sports is a complete joke. This should not be happening. Boys/men have zero business competing in girls/women's sports.
That's just like, your opinion, ma'am.
Who cares whether we accept trans women as women? The first place finisher followed the rules in the state of California and even shared the first place spot on the podium with the second finisher. That takes humility and grace, two things that most posters here, me included, won''t accomplish in their lifetime. The shade thrown at the first place finisher is completely unnecessary.
That said, if you are born male, you have an advantage in most sports. That's also irrelevant. Because if you are born male and grown up to becsix feet tall, you will have an advantage in the dating market and many other areas of life. If you are born male and live in East Africa, you will have an advantage in long distance running. The question here is "Is transitioning a choice or are you just being who you are?" I think it's the latter. Reasonable people can disagree.
Before he died, Scott Adams had a really interesting hot take on "men in women's sports." He pointed out that gender classification in sports is fundamentally political. The reason we have male and female categories at all is so that we can reward female excellence; if we wanted to reward excellence in the purist sense, we would simply recognize the best competitors, and far fewer women would appear on podiums and, by extension, play sports at all. Ever the Solomon, Adams said that the issue should be resolved by letting the women who compete have final say on norms of fairness. Since we don't have any complaints from the other competitors in this particular competition, you can make it he argument that the completion was fair.
Overall, I think this topic could be one of the biggest turning points in politics.
There should be two political parties: one that truly and honestly believes that trans women are real women, and another political party that does not. With this common ground, I would be willing to bet you’d find a lot of people with similar opinions once we shuffle out the crazies.