In the other thread, Rojo said he coached an athlete from FM that in high school ran 1000 miles in 10 weeks - yes 100 mile weeks for 10 weeks in a row.
So let's not pretend like that is normal or that is recommended for high schoolers. And it's understandable that some athletes and some parents would have questions and concerns about doing that at 16 years of age or younger.
In the other thread, Rojo said he coached an athlete from FM that in high school ran 1000 miles in 10 weeks - yes 100 mile weeks for 10 weeks in a row.
So let's not pretend like that is normal or that is recommended for high schoolers. And it's understandable that some athletes and some parents would have questions and concerns about doing that at 16 years of age or younger.
Maybe or maybe not. But if one or two national level boys were able to handle it then it’s not unusual during cross country in the best schools - but that was probably over a decade ago. No recent fm runner is good enough for that and therefore it’s not part of the training. So kind of pointless BS for this situation
First, I know the former boys, now men, who supposedly ran 100miles per week in high school. And they did…Once. They collectively had a goal of running 1000 miles over the 12 week summer leading into cross country. That is 83 miles per week, on average (because of math). The final week of the summer, they approached 100 miles (again, once). They were upperclassmen, physically matured, and were aligned in their mission. They typically averaged 65-80 miles per week throughout the remainder of their seasons, which is pretty standard for elite level high school runners (both 20 years ago, and now).
Since that time, Bill Aris’s training methods have evolved with the times as has been clearly indicated by some posts within this thread from parents in his program now. So he seems to have learned that the older way of doing it isn't as accepted as it once was. Commendable, intelligent, adaptive. Unfortunately, the recent results prove that, because 40-55 miles per week as parents are reporting won’t even win you a sectional championship these days. At some point, parents might even decide that winning a sectional, state, regional, or national championship is desirable. And when they do, they, too, must accept the risk of injury that comes with training for such lofty endeavors.
Regarding your sacrificial lamb story (whom I also know and who remains family friends with Coach Aris to this day!!) - that absolutely happened! What is missing from your context is a lot. This runner expressed interest in improving on hills during races and had been working toward that goal in her training prior to the Federation Championship at Bowdoin Park (where NXR - NY/NE is still held today). With her improved hill strength leading into the meet, Coach Aris tasked her with being the so called “sacrificial lamb”, inspiring her to lead her team to the top of the hill, mid race. What a confidence boost this was for her. The best part, untold in your version, is that she continued on with her excellent starting position, and carried it through to the finish! She finished in her highest team placement of the season through that point. So his strategy not only benefitted the team, but also the individual. It worked. That is just one example of the magic of Coach Bill Aris. A negative story, turned 180 degrees to positive. With the simple, good, old fashioned truth.
Last point. For a coach to be viewed as overstepping, or what have you, for encouraging his top nationally ranked team to wear hats to preserve health and wellness in the days prior to the national championship, in a climate 3000 miles away from home, is laughable.
If these truths hurt your feelings, that is unfortunate. But it doesn't change the fact that they are true.
Dr Bob, are you implying that your intelligence makes you better able to determine the outcome of an investigation that you, along with the rest of us, know very little about the specifics of?? The automatic villainizing of the accusers without knowing specific claims is odd. If you are so confident in the outcome, why not let this play out and sit and watch them be proven wrong?? I've never had a bad interaction with Bill, but this hysterical defense is over the top. As a parent, everyone has the right to speak out in their child's defense. You don't seem like the type of person that would sit back and stay silent yourself. Why are your positive feelings about Bill more important than someone else's experience??
If they have sufficient assets to pay a judgment, they can keep their homes.
Maybe one parent can keep a home, and rent rooms out.
He is the most famous high school coach in the country. This story is being covered world wide. It killed any chance of him writing a Jack Daniel’s type book, or going to clinics. His damages are in the millions. Plus libel isn’t covered by insurance and can’t be discharged in bankruptcy. If these parents can’t back up the bluster they are in huge financial trouble.
Why are your positive feelings about Bill more important than someone else's experience??
One word.
Agenda.
I have very rarely ever seen these situations NOT have some behind the scenes hidden agenda on the part of the accusers/attackers/lodgers of complaints/etc. On the surface they will claim, "for the better good" but is that the reality?
It's more often than not a very selfish pursuit for their own self interest, and not to altruisticaly "rid the coaching profession of a bad apple!"
He is the most famous high school coach in the country. This story is being covered world wide. It killed any chance of him writing a Jack Daniel’s type book, or going to clinics. His damages are in the millions. Plus libel isn’t covered by insurance and can’t be discharged in bankruptcy. If these parents can’t back up the bluster they are in huge financial trouble.
Hilarious inflated sense of importance.
Carry on.
Hilarious inflated sense of importance seems to better fit the several parents causing this nonsense. Be forewarned- even if you “win” whatever that means, there will be consequences that will haunt you down the road. Karmas a beech. Good luck getting your kids to be accepted into any decent college programs. The track world is small and word gets around. No coach will want trouble makers on his team.
Not knowing the accusers or the facts behind their accusations, how can you make such a bold statement? They are now trouble makers and will never be capable of decent college careers? Come on. These are kids you're talking about. Not every athlete at the high school level even WANTS to have a collegiate career. They are still entitled to fair treatment and they are also entitled to speak up about their experiences if they felt they were harmful. If it isn't a valid complaint, the investigation will prove as much. How can anyone say that these parents or kids have an agenda when you have no idea what this entails?
Not knowing the accusers or the facts behind their accusations, how can you make such a bold statement? They are now trouble makers and will never be capable of decent college careers? Come on. These are kids you're talking about. Not every athlete at the high school level even WANTS to have a collegiate career. They are still entitled to fair treatment and they are also entitled to speak up about their experiences if they felt they were harmful. If it isn't a valid complaint, the investigation will prove as much. How can anyone say that these parents or kids have an agenda when you have no idea what this entails?
Never said there’s a an agenda. Maybe there is. And btw if you think no one knows the accusers or their so called grievances you’re very naive.
Hilarious inflated sense of importance seems to better fit the several parents causing this nonsense. Be forewarned- even if you “win” whatever that means, there will be consequences that will haunt you down the road. Karmas a beech. Good luck getting your kids to be accepted into any decent college programs. The track world is small and word gets around. No coach will want trouble makers on his team.
Read the post I responded to and tell me I’m wrong.
I'm going to take a wild guess that you aren't one of the accusers. So call me naive all you want, there's a good chance you don't know all of the details involved. Again, these are kids, making judgements about their future in the sport seems inappropriate, and let the facts speak for themselves instead of your aggressive defense on an online forum.
The public may never know the allegations or the details, other than the letter to the school a year ago about injuries and anemia being the coach’s fault broadcasted on the news. These investigations protect privacy of the accused and the accusers, and very much doubt the public will be given any detail. It is a personnel matter and that is what the district will say when asked. People are speculating about the accusations, the accusers, and about the outcome.
Lost in all of this is how terrible this experience must be for a 70 year old man, his wife battling terminal cancer, after the unparalleled career he has had and the wonders he has done for the FM district and community. There will always be a few haters. But these are next level. His name is being dragged through the mud, and he has been treated like a criminal. He is the exact opposite of a criminal, and has done the world a great service through the many lives he has helped shape for the better. And furthermore, how terrible this experience must be for the kids who are coached by him, and who want him to continue coaching them.
These allegations had better be founded, and they had better be really, really, REALLY bad. If they are found not to be, the people behind this will gain a few points. And it won’t be in heaven.
This post was edited 2 minutes after it was posted.
I'm going to take a wild guess that you aren't one of the accusers. So call me naive all you want, there's a good chance you don't know all of the details involved. Again, these are kids, making judgements about their future in the sport seems inappropriate, and let the facts speak for themselves instead of your aggressive defense on an online forum.
You still won't address the idea/concept that even if there is no foundation for the complaint or fault found in the investigation, there is still harm to Aris. In your world he just has to take it because he is a semi-public figure.
Instead, all you care about is that these parents, yes parents, not the kids you keep referencing, get to have their day.
And it isn't an aggressive defense to state that either way for the accusers there can be consequences. Some are overt, like legal judgements, some are silent, like how the community you live in will view you afterward when the dust has settled.
It might even be, if an athlete is good enough to run at the next level, maybe some coaches don't pick up the phone, or send out that letter, or answer that e-mail. It is a small and niche world that we fans pay attention to and word gets around.
Bill Aris is not the villain they would like you to believe he is:
It's easy to point fingers and get riled up when you see negative headlines in our sport. I get it, I saw problems in HS and saw more at the collegiate level, but I advise anyone who has been quick to throw FM Coach Bill Aris on the cross; take a step back and review the facts. FM was not a meatgrinder program with a 100+ person team that churns out a few lucky survivors(we all know who those programs). Aris had 20-30 athletes at a time, sometimes less. Over the decades a few were truly exceptional ("The Great Nick Ryan") but most were average to below average athletes, that lacked the coordination to excel in soccer or other sports. Most of these kids couldn't even dream of competing after college, not to mention receiving D1 scholarships or acceptance to elite Ivy league schools. Coach Bill Aris inspired them to believe that anything was possible and gave them the option to work for it. Don't take my word for it,
. I ran HS XC and track in Upstate NY competed with, watched and usually lost to FM runners. The boys were always impressive, regularly qualifying for NXN, but the girls were another level. It was not just their utter dominance... they actually looked healthy. Nearly every meet had 3-4 top girls that were clearly under-fueling/dealing with an eating disorder. The FM girls were noticeably stronger and their running showed it.
Coach Aris inspired his athletes to work hard, believe in one another and "Break On Through(to the other side)." I saw it for years and it was truly wonderful thing to behold. I suspect many folks on here that watched FM compete feel the same way. We shouldn't be calling Bill Aris a villain, instead, like the vast majority of his athletes, we should be calling him a hero, the GOAT, but most of all a STOTAN!
I don't even have an opinion on whatever controversy Bill Aris is or isn't involved in right now but this post is like 200 words of "I saw them run at meets and I looked up their team results on Dyestat so I don't think he could be a bad guy" so yeah another nothing post by someone with zero information. dumb.
Weird that you're saying that I "still won't address" consequences for the parents if these claims are unfounded. That never was a topic I discussed. For the third time, as much as you want me to go after the parents, my point is about the actual KIDS in this situation, who don't deserve "fans" to aspire to make their futures miserable.
I am not saying I agree or disagree with the accusations, as I (as well as you) do not know what they completely entail.
As I've stated before, I personally have only had positive interactions with Bill. I personally have always respected and admired him. My interactions may not mirror everyone else's, and neither do yours.
Anger and aggression online, especially aimed at CHILDREN, is very off putting. Supporters like you don't really help Bill's cause. You seem angry and unreasonable. I hope things go Bill's way and we continue to see him for a long time to come. But he needs supporters that are willing to let this process play out with some measure of reason for it to be effective.
Agree with this post also. Suppositions about future college rejections because of the behaviors of parents, don’t help the cause to support Coach Aris (although that could theoretically be an outcome).
The parents are those who appear to have complained, and are also those appearing to only be interviewed. I wonder why?
This post was edited 2 minutes after it was posted.
It is apparent that you may have experienced or have closely witnessed this play out before to another coach. From your experience, was the outcome unjust for the allegations made? Also, Coach Aris reportedly has never had disciplinary action taken against him in his decades of coaching. Was the situation similar in the other case(s)?