Say you get into an ivy, or a school like u of chicago- is the price worth it?

i also think you're conflating 2 different things.

(1) mommy and daddy are upper middle but have not saved for college, and too rich for financial aid or a free tuition program.

(2) the kid's own cost-benefit analysis of his or her future.

kid's cost-benefit an elite school is worth it. the poorer kids may go cheap or free. and generally those elite schools' grads are the most in demand with the best grad schools, highest salaries, and opportunities. not even a real debate.

what i feel is being done here is we muddle that no-brainer analysis by can mommy or daddy afford to get you there. that's not so much maximizing outcomes or looking cost-benefit, as focusing solely on the expense part, and kind of trying to wave your hands around where maybe junior gets over the fact he's going to State on cost grounds and not optimization or prestige.

State is only cheap if you have uniquely cheap in state tuition where they can reconfigure financial aid to reduce loans. otherwise i was borrowing the same amount everywhere. federal government has a limit. i hit the limit each place. same diff.

at that point, who offers me more grants and scholarships where i pay less out of pocket and can use my summer paychecks to live as opposed to get in. my experience, privates. State tends to cover like 50-70% of need. a good private is more like 90-100%. the private package comes out better. and i owe debt in the same amount both places.

at which point, coming to what i THOUGHT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT, which school helps me pay it off better. the ivy or ivy plus. duh.

but, no, i think we're wandering into something more obvious, myopic, and less nuanced. if i am TOO RICH FOR AID, HOW MUCH IS DADDY'S CHECK? which is really more a ranking by tuition cost. juco would win that. you're just trying to make it florida or UT so there is "some" argument about value. because harvard vs. juco is laughable.

and most kids would be on aid as opposed to so upper middle or rich daddy cuts a check. so they need to either go to an academy, or berea, or a school with a free tuition program, or they need to run cost-benefit on value of private tuition vs paying it back after.

which, it's been rehearsed on here before, the real argument is not the cost-benefit on harvard or williams, it's the cost-benefit on the 80th or 150th best private liberal arts college. that's same debt with less income and prestige.

but we have to pretend harvard is the one with the issues. if you're paying attention it's more like "birmingham southern" or "northland college." small, mediocre, somewhat expensive, maybe spent too much on facilities (and borrowing for them) while the enrollment tanked.

Yea you cant compare full price at one to just tuition at another. Comparing tuition to tuition they are all the same. Indeed malibu and chicago might be quite a bit more for living.

Incorrect. Harvard is $59k. U of Chicago is $71k. Princeton is $65k. Total cost is what a parent cares about though.

If you go to graduate school where you received your undergraduate degree from will be irrelevant. My mother told me that way back when and she was right. If you plan to stop at an undergraduate degree, the only difference I see across colleges is who you will get to know. So, yes getting to know the offspring of a family worth $100,000,000 helps more than getting to know one with a family worth of $100,000. But not that much. Your time, effort, inspiration, and work ethic during your career will matter way more. My advice is to go to a college that has a wide set of majors you might want to consider and that you will enjoy attending. Worry less about its "prestige." You will be happier, you will get more out of your education, and in the end will be better off.

Colleges (not just the Ivies) love to throw around those stats like "nobody making under $200k pays tuition." That may be true, but the vast majority of students at the most prestigious schools are from well-to-do backgrounds. 4% of Ivy league students are from the bottom 20% of income. 18% get Pell grants. A married couple sending their kids off to college are probably in their late 40s-50s. Even if they have fairly standard middle-class white collar jobs, they've probably worked their way up the ladder to have a decent income. They're probably not going to be anywhere close to Pell grant eligibility. They could very well be over $200k in combined income, especially in big cities.

The only people I know in recent years who have gotten good need-based financial aid to Ivies or other top private universities are people with a dead parent or a deadbeat dad, or parents who are really gaming the system as much as possible for years (having only one parent work, hiding assets as much as possible, etc.).

As for whether or not it matters, I guess for some people who really want a high-paying job in certain fields or want to be a Supreme Court justice or something like that, maybe it's worth it. But in most parts of the country, the networking will be just as good at the flagship state university. There are also a lot of jobs where grad school is going to matter far more than undergrad, and if you do well at a not-prestigious undergrad and have good grades/test scores, you can get into a very good graduate program.

Ya, schools like Florida, UVA, UNC, etc. are very good for most people - but they'd be a let down for the students who are truly ivy material - the 1500+ sat range. Only reasons these guys should choose UNC honors college over an ivy is if they have a very niche academic interest that just fits there or for sport. Now is they are like a student in the 1400s and the choice is like Florida at in state rates vs Rice, maybe its not so clear cut.

There are other factors that could play a little role - like I could see Emory over Dartmouth if someone hates the cold lol.

But lets get real - everyone on this board chose the school that was the best mix of academics and school they could run for.

When you hit 1 year of work experience, where you went to grad school will be irrelevant too. I don't think anyone has cared where I got my masters in over a decade. In fact, masters degrees are a pretty stupid thing to get - I essentially paid a bunch of money for a team to root for in March Madness every few years. Well, I guess a masters isn't stupid - if your employer pays for it (or you did like a 5 year teachers licensure or other professional credential masters).

My son and daughter both had above 1500 but our son chose the inexpensive route and large school atmosphere. Several of his teammates were similar.

This post demonstrates an acute lack of understanding of the higher education and the prestige associated with certain schools and not associated with others. The whole point is that this is perception only, something baked into our culture and establishment and not something that is completely verifiable or subject to a list. Schools like Harvard don't even need to tend to their grounds or paint their fading athletic facilities or update the weight room because they have an aura or mystique that transcends this. The Ivies are all shabby chic and transcend metrics or rankings. Florida and Vanderbilt are in no way comparable in the world of higher ed. If you know this you know this and if you don't you don't as proven above. The Ivies, Vanderbilt, Duke, Northwestern, JHU, Chicago, Stanford, MIT, Caltech, Notre Dame, Rice and the LACs Williams and Amherst are taken slightly more seriously by graduate schools, academia and corporate America than are the others. These are the schools that probably are worth the money. This is based purely on perception and subtle reputation cues, not the reality of the education that be equaled in many other places. These are the very top brands in higher ed. The top brands are probably worth it.

Number 3.

that's just tuition though. I count living costs

I don’t know man. I could see a kid (and parents) choosing “UNC honors” or “UVa honors” over, say, Cornell, if they got a full ride or even full tuition versus having to pay full go at the Ivies. UNC and UVa are great schools. And 1550+ kids can get crazy merit money at some elite, non-Ivy schools. Believe me. We lived it.

But there are plenty of great schools. Like Emory. Like WashU. Like Georgia Tech. Like Davidson. I mean, everyone here realizes that Vandy has a higher average SAT and lower acceptance rate than Cornell, right and is on par with some of the others? It’s not HYPSM, but it’s damn good, just like Duke.

if you smart you just start a business or just do. college is just a club for kids who cant think for themselves.

Hopefully they still teach people how to use (or refrain from using) the word "anymore."

What is your degree worth in the brave new world?

I would not rely on past trends too much.

What jobs are out there? in the new AI world.

One idea is to prepare very well and just do one year. Ace everything. And you have on your resume that your tier one material, and say you are able to teach yourself everything with a mentor, and move onto the real deal.

Research what is coming down the pipe.

Agree wholeheartedly. Plus, the brand is not nearly as invaluable if the kid is merely a bookworm and good at school but nothing else. I get it, if you want investment banking or consulting, go Ivy. But, otherwise, why would you not choose a school like Vanderbilt with its equal academic footing and much better SEC athletics programs and better weather and, frankly, a fun, big city right there? If you can get money versus none at an Ivy.

It’s kind of like medical school. Very few people have ever heard of the Cleveland Clinic Lerner College of Medicine, an offshoot of Case Western Reserve Medical School. It’s not necessarily highly ranked, but they poach “top ten” kids all day long into their five-year, fully paid research-oriented program. Their match list is on par with top tens. So, again, if a kid can go to CCLCM for “free” versus paying an arm and a leg at Yale or Penn, why wouldn’t they do that? It would be foolish to do otherwise.

Not everyone cares about best brand, nor should they.