Guys back in the day ran 130mpw hard, how did they recover?

Yes. One of the things that set Rodgers apart from the rest was his ability to do a freaking ton of laps around JP without like a mental breakdown or something. I know some Japanese elites train around tiny parks like that, but its pretty atypical in the West.

Bill Rodgers moved to California and decided training in Boston was better. Wild.

Describing a lot of runners I knew. Personally I held 20 daily late 5s low 6s for 2 months every macrocycle. Also never took water or snacks my first 10ish marathons. Me personally, I really only respond to high miles. I never raced well off 80-100. Others I knew would be injured much past 70s. It was just the mentality then. And it still holds true just slightly differently. Find the high mileage your body can handle and recover from and work with that.

In those days static stretching wasn’t taboo. the stretching helped their muscles recover.

jeff julian of new zealand back in the early 70s, or before was reported to run the lydiard circuit, 22 miler in 2 hours 20 minutes every day .. for a stint,

the run featured a 2 1/2 mile hill..

someone might correct this,

i can speak to this somewhat having run now for 50 years. started running in the mid 70's. back then, road running was exploding thanks to Shorter and Rodgers. everything was pretty much under the table other then some road guys trying to form a pro road racing circuit with open prize money. but your essentially correct. lots of people were basically running bums that hammered the training and raced a lot more. i think a few, such as benji durden, would run up to 4 or 5 marathons a year, plus use weekend 10k's as speed/tempo training. there were a lot more road races to run back then. also back then, a lot of people also had, at least, part time jobs. i knew one guy that was a 2:12 marathoner that was a manager of a major supermarket. it seems to me that distance runners were a lot tougher back then. they weren't sitting around resting and playing video games between training runs.

I’m assuming you mean “Guys back in the day….” who were world class runners? I was not that. If you followed Lydiard like many of us you didn’t run those miles year-round, because you had obligations to race frequently for your college team and in the summer’s represent your sponsor (who officially never paid you a dime). I was Athletic Attic. I knew exactly 2 people running 140 miles a week. I hit the 100’s, maxing at 131 one summer. I ran at least 2 of my longish runs (the Thursday 18 miler and the Saturday 20 miler) “slow” at around 8 min pace. As recommended by Lydiard you “jogged” a few miles every morning. I did 4 and it was probably closer to 8:30 pace. So, you recovered because of periodization. You HAD to do a variety of things to prep for a variety of races. If you were college age the marathon was not a thing and your coach would get pissed if you did one. Remember, many of us doubled in track, occasionally tripling with a relay. 1500, 5000, then 800 relay.

If I recall correctly, Julian was running mostly in the early '60s. He was said to turn to super mileage, up to 150-200mpw at times, but it pretty much caused his body to break down.

When Arthur had settled on a formula of 100mpw he had tried 200mpw but said his body could never recover so the higher mileage risked injury as well as inferior performance.

In the US, these guys peaked for about 12-24 months and then crumbled with injury after injury (Edelen in the 60's, Salazar, Beardsley, etc.) Shorter and Rodgers were the genetic exceptions.

This was my first extended period of high mileage. Before this I had sporadic big weeks over the years but nothing extended like this. My Senior year XC. I had pretty much all of my credits for graduation out of the way so it was easy for me to schedule my running, and get as much rest as needed. I had a perfect season going until I tripped over a root and dislocated my shoulder after I fell the week before Nationals. Anyway, this is what a schedule that combined big weeks with racing looks like. Nothing spectacular, just roll up your sleeves and get to work.

9/5-9/11 110 miles
9/5 AM 7 miles easy PM 10 miles moderate
9/6 AM 5 miles easy PM 10 miles moderate
9/7 AM 8 miles easy PM 3 mile warm-up; 6x800 XC @ 2:30 w/2:00 jog; 3 mile warm-down
9/8 AM 5 miles moderate PM 10 miles easy
9/9 AM 7 miles easy PM 3 mile warm-up; 3.5 miles fartlek; 3 mile warm-down
9/10 PM 3.5 mile warm-up; 10xPark Forest Hill; 3.5 miles easy
9/11 AM 10 miles easy PM 10 miles easy
---------------------------------------------------------------

9/12-9/18 116 miles
9/12 AM 15 miles hard PM 5 miles slow
9/13 AM 10 miles easy PM 3 mile warm-up; 10x400 (65) w/200 jog; 3 miles easy
9/14 PM 8 miles moderate
9/15 AM 10 miles slow PM 3 mile warm-up; 8x800 XC (2:10,2:20,2:12,2:28,2:17,2:15,2:13,2:10) w/3:00 jog; 2 mile warm-down
9/16 AM 5 miles moderate PM 8 miles moderate
9/17 AM 10 miles easy PM 10 miles easy
9/18 AM 3 mile warm-up; 5 mile time trial in 25:03(1st); 5 mile warm-down PM 5 miles easy
------------------------------------------------------------------------

9/19-9/25 116 miles
9/19 AM 10 miles easy PM 10 miles easy
9/20 AM 9 miles moderate PM 3 mile warm-up; 12xPark Forest Hill; 3 miles slow
9/21 AM 5 miles easy PM 8 miles moderate
9/22 AM 9 miles easy PM 3 mile warm-up; 3 mile XC in 14:43; 4 mile warm-down
9/23 AM 9 miles easy PM 8 miles moderate
9/24 PM 8 miles slow
9/25 AM vs Villanova 3 mile warm-up; 5 mile XC in 24:21.6 (1st); 4 mile warm-down PM 8 miles easy
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

9/26-10/2 130 miles

9/26 PM 11 miles easy
9/27 AM 10 miles easy PM 3 mile warm-up; 12xPark Forest Hill; 3 mile warm-down
9/28 AM 10 miles easy PM 11 miles moderate
9/29 AM 11 miles moderate PM 1 mile warm-up; 9.5 mile loop in 49:00 (record); 1 mile warm-down
9/30 AM 9 miles moderate PM 8 miles moderate
10/1 AM 10 miles easy PM 10 miles easy
10/2 AM vs West Virginia 4 mile warm-up; 5 mile XC in 24:39.2 (1st, course record); 3 mile warm-down PM 5 miles easy
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

10/3-10/9 125 miles
10/3 PM 16 miles easy
10/4 AM 9 miles easy PM 3 mile warm-up; 10x400 (63.5) w/200 jog; 3 mile warm-down
10/5 AM 10 miles easy PM 11 miles moderate
10/6 AM 10 miles easy PM 3 mile warm-up; 2x1.5 miles XC(7:00,7:06); 3 mile warm-down
10/7 AM 11 miles easy PM 7 miles moderate
10/8 AM 5 miles slow PM vs Kent State 3 mile warm-up; 6 mile XC in 29:01 (1st, course record); 4 mile warm-down
10/9 AM 13 miles easy
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

10/10-10/16 145 miles

10/10 AM 10 miles easy PM 10 miles slow
10/11 AM 10 miles easy PM 3.5 mile warm-up; 8x800 XC (2:14,2:17,2:10,2:21,2:13,2:14,2:18,2:07) w/2:00 jog; 3.5 mile warm-down
10/12 AM 11 miles easy PM 11 miles moderate
10/13 AM 10 miles easy PM 3.5 mile warm-up; 4.5 mile fartlek; 3 mile warm-down
10/14 AM 11 miles easy PM 10 miles easy
10/15 AM 10 miles easy PM 10 miles easy
10/16 AM Penn State Handicap Race 3 mile warm-up; 5 mile XC in 24:01 (1st); 5 mile warm-down PM 7 miles easy
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

10/17-10/23 130 miles
10/17 AM 10 miles easy PM 10 miles easy
10/18 AM 9 miles easy PM 3 mile warm-up; 14xPark Forest Hill; 3.5 mile warm-down
10/19 AM 10 miles easy PM 11 miles moderate
10/20 AM 10 miles easy PM 3 mile warm-up; 1 mile 4:34, 4x400(66),800(2:16),400(62); 3 mile warm-down
10/21 AM 10 miles easy PM 8 miles easy
10/22 AM 10 miles easy PM 10 miles easy
10/23 AM vs Georgetown, William & Mary 3 mile warm-up; 5 mile XC in 23:54.7 (1st, course record); 4 miles slow
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

10/24-10/30 103 miles
10/24 PM 14 miles easy
10/25 AM 7 miles moderate PM 3 mile warm-up; 15x400 @ 63 w/200 jog(60); 3 mile warm-down
10/26 AM 5 miles moderate PM 10 miles fast
10/27 AM 7 miles easy PM 3 mile warm-up, 3x1.5 mile XC (6:58,7:36,7:55) w/3:00 rest, 3 mile warm-down
10/28 AM 5 miles easy PM 10 miles easy
10/29 AM 5 miles easy PM 5 miles easy
10/30 AM Central Collegiates 4 mile warm-up; 5 mile XC in 24:19 (1st, course record); 5 mile warm-down
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

10/31-11/6 131 miles
10/31 AM 10 miles easy PM 10 miles easy
11/1 AM 10 miles easy PM 3 mile warm-up; 10x800 XC (2:14,2:16,2:08,2:22,2:12,2:13,2:16,2:07,2:32,2:15), 3 mile warm-down
11/2 AM 10 miles easy PM 10 miles moderate
11/3 AM 10 miles easy PM 3 mile warm-up; 4 miles fartlek; 3 miles easy
11/4 AM 10 miles easy PM 10 miles easy
11/5 AM vs Pittsburgh 3 mile warm-up; 5 mile XC in 24:03 (1st); 5 mile warm-down
11/6 PM 16 miles easy
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

11/7-11/13 130 miles
11/7 AM 1.5 miles easy, 9.5 mile loop in 53:10 PM 11 miles moderate
11/8 AM 10 miles easy PM 3 mile warm-up; 1 mile(4:28),2x800(2:12,2:15),1 mile(4:37),2x800(2:15,2:12),1 mile(4:53),400(61); 2 mile warm-down
11/9 AM 10 miles easy PM 10 miles easy
11/10 PM 3 mile warm-up; 4x1.5 mile XC (7:07,7:17,7:14,7:24), 2 mile warm-down
11/11 AM 10 miles easy PM 10 miles moderate
11/12 AM 10 miles easy PM 3 mile warm-up; 4 miles fartlek; 3 mile warm-down
11/13 AM 10 miles easy PM 5 miles easy
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

11/14-11/20 82 miles
11/14 AM USTFF XC 3 mile warm-up; 10k race in 29:34 (1st, course record); 4 mile warm-down
11/15 PM 11 miles easy FELL and DISLOCATED SHOULDER
11/16 AM 5 miles easy, shoulder really bad
11/17 PM 3 mile warm-up; 10x440 (61,61,62,60,60,61,60,61,60,59), 3 miles easy, shoulder bad
11/18 AM 5 miles easy PM 10 miles easy...shoulder
11/19 AM 5 miles easy PM 3 miles easy, 3 miles fartlek, 3 miles easy..shoulder
11/20 AM 5 miles easy PM 9 miles easy shoulder
--------------------------------------------------------------------
11/21 - 11/27 77 miles
11/21 AM 5 miles easy PM 4 miles easy shoulder
11/22 AM NCAA XC Championship 3 mile warm-up; 10,000m XC in 29:07 (20th); 1 mile warm-down
11/23 PM 15 miles moderate
11/24 AM 8 miles easy PM 10 miles hard
11/25 PM 12 miles easy
11/26 AM 2 miles easy
11/27 AM AAU XC 3 easy, 10k XC 30:44 (12th) 3 easy

You're close. Barry Magee told me that Julian was an "odd duck." But at times he did massive amounts of mileage. He'd tun a full marathon before work each day and do another 10-15 miles after work. When most of Arthur's guys were doing 1,000 miles in their ten week build up Jeff would do 2,000. Arthur told me once the group was talking about doing 100 mile weeks and Jeff said he was doing 200 mile weeks. Arthur said he was going to joke about that and tell Jeff if he wanted to be really good he needed to do 300 miles a week then thought "Jeff just might try it" and didn't say anything.

But he only did this in his build up phases. Evidently his annual mileage was a hair on either side of 4,000 miles and later in his career he changed his training so that it was pretty much the same year round running 5 or 6 miles to work and back with a couple "normal" long tuns on the weekends and with some hill reps and time trials in the weeks before a major race. I do believe he once had the world record for 40 miles on the track. Maybe he still does as I think that record isn't kept anymore.

From this and other comments, I get the sense the "survival of the fittest" mentality was much of the difference back then. The main difference there being when people got burnt out or injured, they just sort of moved on, quietly. So the attrition rate APPEARED to be lower because they decided that type of training, or the sport, wasn't for them. You didn't have those people flocking to Doctors/PT's or to social media to try and figure out the issue. All of which makes it seem people are getting hurt far more these days. That same person in the 70's would have just said "I gave it a shot, wasn't for me" and took up tennis.

That's my theory at least, because I don't have a physiological explanation. It's not like people have changed. But I'd take thoughts on that theory.

I remember reading that Bill Rodgers would raid his fridge in the middle of the night, eating oreos and mayonnaise out of the jar, then would ask himself "do I run this much so I can eat like this or do I eat like this in order to run so much?".

Frank shorter said in his book that he averaged around 130 miles for a decade (1970-1980), which has to be some kind of a record.

These guys were pioneers, the limits weren't really known back then. You also have guys like David Bedford and Jos Hermens who ran close to 200 miles a week at some point, but would have very short careers because of it.

That being said, I think they must've been, at some point, guessing their total mileage at times.

Those 130 mpw w workouts and racing are impressive, especially 10 miles in the am and 10 miles in the pm the day before races. My college coaches were unfamiliar w this type of training. Day before a race was always 5 miles easy.

Well this was the exception. Usually it was 4/5 or just 10. Big meets I was especially diligent, running 2/5,but always getting in the morning 2-3. That seemed to be the key. Although once I ran with Groves, maybe 2-3 the day before NCAA track and slipped on dogsh/t and cut my back open on those aluminum sidewalk borders. Ended up our assistant coach Schwartz had to wash the dogsh/t out of my sweats.

Do they still use those aluminum sidewalk borders. There must have been a lot of kids that got cut up by them?

Yeah, if my opponents knew I was putting in 20 miles pre-meet they would have sh/t the bed. What the heck. I was on a roll and felt indestructible.

I'd like to see the actual quote/numbers. "Averaged 130mpw" in most cases turns out to be "up to 130 mpw" and gets repeated so many times that people take it as the gospel word.

The short careers weren't because of the mileage, it was because there was no financial incentive. A few got money but everyone else got scraps. You cannot have a long career without the performance enhancing dough. That was the real PED. No money, no runny.

People I knew that ran high mileage years ago, and were successfull in races etc, typically say now

that they are older : "I should have run slower on my daily runs"