You say "weak" is a dismissive term. I say weak is a descriptive term. It's all how you think about things.
I really don't care what is a popular view here. What's popular here is wrong at least 50 percent of the time.
When Ingebrigtsen wins a weak event it's not a reflection on him, it's a reflection on the lack of competition. That's simple. Why make anything of it?
I don't actually disagree with any of that I just wondered if you were prepared to apply the term "weak" to an accomplishment of an athlete idolized on these threads. You are.
Whose accomplishment did I say was weak? I said the event (indoors wc) was weak. It is.. Dont get your panties in a bunch.
I don't actually disagree with any of that I just wondered if you were prepared to apply the term "weak" to an accomplishment of an athlete idolized on these threads. You are.
Whose accomplishment did I say was weak? I said the event (indoors wc) was weak. It is.. Dont get your panties in a bunch.
Mm. It would seem to follow that if the event is "weak" winning it is a similar "weak" accomplishment. But I won't dispute that further. It distracts from what Geordie has just done. Truly spectacular. And gutsy.
In college Beamish climbed the ladder one rung at a time. You could see his competitive nature showing through on each rung. This win is just the end of this progression.
Reminder that Beamish outkicked Cole Hocker and Hobbs Kessler, who went on to finish 1-5 in the Olympics that year. Indoor WC was absolutely not a weak title. Not that year (Nuguse and Kerr in the 3k), and especially not that race.
Also this isn’t a popular take, but I’m done pretending like indoor WC is a weak title. It’s just as strong as outdoor WCs, even if the fields are missing the guys who win outdoors (which, again, wasn’t the case for Beamish’s title). From now on, I count indoor medals as strongly as I count outdoor ones. You may think that’s a bad take, but there’s a simple reason why: The guys who win outdoors aren’t good enough to win indoors too. If they were, they would’ve raced it.
Do you think I’m wrong? Please, explain to me how. I think we can all agree Jakob is the best 1500m runner in the world when healthy. Jakob has never won indoor gold and outdoor gold in the same season. Even if you don't think he's the best 1500m runner, whoever you think is the best hasn't either. Kerr hasn't. Hocker hasn't. Even they aren’t good enough. Centro did it in 2016, not sure who else has.
What? Just because not all of the top guys show up in peak form, the title is weaker? With that logic, Geordie Beamish's 1500m title should count for more than whoever wins outdoors this year. In 2024 indoors, the 1500m had the eventual 1st and 5th placers at the Olympics, and the 3k had the eventual 2nd and 3rd placers. Compare that to this year’s outdoor final, which has a total of 1 of last year’s Olympic top 5. The top 4 fastest athletes last year also placed 1-4 outdoors, while 0 of the top 4 fastest athletes this year even made the final. Surely, if you think indoor titles matter less because the top guys don’t normally race, then you must think that Beamish’s 1500m indoor title is more impressive than whoever wins this year’s outdoor title, right? Because
I’m not gonna give one athlete more credit because they won WCs in September instead of March. They are equal titles, just on different surfaces. Indoors, outdoors, XC, and marathon gold are all equal titles on different surfaces.
And before disagreeing, have you ever considered that maybe athletes don’t prioritize indoors BECAUSE fans view it as lesser? The brojos always say “We don’t need more meets, we need more meets that matter”. If you consider an indoor title lesser than an outdoor title, you are part of the problem. YOU are making meets matter less by considering them lesser. If we held indoor world champions in as high regard as outdoor world champions, none of the top athletes would skip indoor worlds, because it would be like skipping outdoor worlds (unthinkable).
And now that road running WCs are a thing, we should hold that in the same regard as indoor and outdoor worlds. Reminder that Faith Kipyegon, after setting 1500m, mile, and 5k WRs and winning the 1500m/5k outdoors, was only 2nd at the road running championships (behind Hailu, Welteji doesn’t count bc she doped). Was she tired from a long season with so many amazing results (despite not running indoors)? I’m sure she was. It doesn’t change the fact that even she wasn’t good enough to win.
With all that said, I’ll add the caveat that I still think holding the Olympics in higher regard is ok, partially for the history, partially because it’s rarer, and partially because it’s so important culturally.
Thanks for the Kip Keino info though, I didn’t realize he won steeple gold too. 1500m gold over Jim Ryun then steeple gold is arguably as (if not more) impressive than 1500m gold over Cole Hocker then steeple gold.
This is an insane take, and not correct at all.
The indoor title is without a doubt weaker. Why? Its not prioritized by the best runners as a whole. Some of the great runners show up, some peak fully, some. Some. Some. Some.
Outdoor titles are withouth a doubht the priority, making them way harder to win and way more prestige. Obviously.
How many times do you see a Champs race where they are over cautious, allowing a kicker to have a win.
El Bakhali knew (or should have known) that Beamish had a phenomenal kick. So why the 9 min plus pace for 2km
Same in the 10,000m, and the way they gave Mo 4 golds too.
Do you really not have a clue? The weather conditions were worse than anything you've ever raced in. (presuming that you've participated in competitive running)
El Batali had every reason to believe HE had the best kick. He only lost by 0.02s.
In college Beamish climbed the ladder one rung at a time. You could see his competitive nature showing through on each rung. This win is just the end of this progression.
accomplishment. But I won't dispute that further. It distracts from what Geordie has just done. Truly spectacular. And gutsy.
Spectacular and gutsy? According to you he was lucky. That's what you say of Centro, who won a slow race where superior athletes failed to push the pace early on.
Spectacular and gutsy? According to you he was lucky. That's what you say of Centro, who won a slow race where superior athletes failed to push the pace early on.
Be coherent for once.
That you think his win was the same as Centro's win in 2016 shows you don't follow track.
Gault really doesn't get it. One of these days, one of those guys he's interviewing will respond with a justified verbal take-down.
If Gault would just bother to read the LRC message board he could learn how insulting his questions are. For his edification, here's a lesson on the steeplechase. No excuse for him to ask insulting questions anymore. Why the steeplechase is the most badass event in track and field....
.....
"Come and get one in the yarbles, if you have any yarbles, you eunuch jelly thou!"
The steeplechase has made geldings out of many a brave men.
Once again, the steeplechase is the most badass event in track and field....
Spectacular and gutsy? According to you he was lucky. That's what you say of Centro, who won a slow race where superior athletes failed to push the pace early on.
Be coherent for once.
That you think his win was the same as Centro's win in 2016 shows you don't follow track.
It was the same in the sense that they both ran tactically perfect races.
"Shows you don't follow track" could be applied to 90% of your posts.
Can you give a reference or source to the first ever in Ireland? I have read everything I thought existed on the history of this event and thought it was UK in the earfly 1800s....
(Former Oxford University steeplechaser, not far off 1860s vintage...)
Can you give a reference or source to the first ever in Ireland? I have read everything I thought existed on the history of this event and thought it was UK in the earfly 1800s....
(Former Oxford University steeplechaser, not far off 1860s vintage...)
I'll see what I can find about the two Irish gentlemen. Its out there.
There are embellishments in my piece (drunken college students, etc) but not on the pertinent facts. If you need it I could mark up which sentences are embellished in the name of creative license. Everything else would be facts from published articles.
I left off the part about the Oxford Chad's using the organized xc steeplechases as an opportunity to show off their impressive bulges to parasol twirling ladies in attendance. :-)