Not that it matters, but I can’t imagine an issue like this would get any traction in the 50-80s. Progress? I don’t know, but there’s something creepy going on.
I think what most people on your side of this issue fail to understand is what the point of sport is.
What are we doing as a species pouring all this time money and energy into sports?
To be a champion at something is to be a symbol of the qualities necessary to succeed at life - in anything. If you are able to use a combination of your natural gifts, determination, and focus to become a champion, you get rewarded for it. Why? Because you did something that we all admire and seek to emulate. That’s the point! That’s why you get the trophy.
In women’s sports, they may not be as physically impressive as the men, but it’s irrelevant because the women who become the best at their discipline possess the qualities that we all admire and want to copy. They’re a symbol of something to look up to.
But if you’re just a random person who wins out of sheer biological advantage - do you deserve to be a champion? No. And this is not to be mean or callous. But that person winning those races in California is not a special person. Leah Thomas is not a special person. They are obviously human beings deserving of love and respect, but they are not champions. They have not done the work necessary to be labeled extraordinary.
I ran 1:53 for 800 in college, which is the women’s world record. If I were to compete as a woman in the Olympics and win gold, do I deserve the respect of an Olympic champion? Absolutely, unequivocally not. I am not as special as that person. I did not develop the strength of will and character that it takes to become a genuine Olympic champion, and therefore deserving of the level of respect we typically give to those people.
Another thing a lot of people seem to miss is that the men’s division isn’t “for men,” it’s just the highest level of a given sport. The boys basketball team isn’t made for biological males, it’s just the best basketball team the school can put together. The same goes for college, and the NBA. If there’s ever a biological woman truly good enough, she would instantly be allowed to play on the men’s team. Because it isn’t the “men’s team,” it’s just the top of the heap.
Women’s sports were created so biological women could experience the same benefits of sports, and so we could reward and look up to the women who become legitimate champions within that category.
You seem to think the point of sport is to be a champion, which for 99.99999% of us, that is just untrue.
It doesn't matter that you ran 1:53 and didn't win women's gold. The point is that if you lived your life as a woman and ran 1:53, then you should have had the opportunity to do that.
You are so close to understanding this with your "men's team" argument. The entire reason we invented women's sports isn't because women couldn't make the men's team. It's because the coaches/admin would not allow women to compete whether they were better than some men or not. They wouldn't even let them have their own teams separate from men on many occasions. Title IX exists for participation opportunities, not so that we can hand out more trophies.
If a transwoman runs 1:53 to win Olympic gold, it does not take away from the ciswoman who might run 1:54 for silver. Both are symbols to look up too. Both deserve respect. Leah Thomas deserves just as much respect as someone like Gretchen Walsh or Katie Ledecky.
Not that it matters, but I can’t imagine an issue like this would get any traction in the 50-80s. Progress? I don’t know, but there’s something creepy going on.
Most girls didn't have the opportunity to engage in competitive sports 50s and 60s, and still had far less opportunities than boys in 70s.
This post was edited 17 seconds after it was posted.
So a trans runner demolishes the field in the final. How must that feel for the second place finisher (an actual girl)? Now apparently, she get the points and the #1 podium spot. But did she really experience the elation of winning?
What a joke. Stop this nonsense now. The Californians are twisting themselves into pretzels to protect cheaters. Why not allow dopers to compete as well, but just don't score them?
You can bet Hernandez is thrilled about the attention, hoping it will raise attendance so more people can see him adjust his tucked junk and special lacy socks with silk garters that help him leap farther…
The whole thing is a cruel joke on women and fans, and Hernandez and his nutty mother should be ashamed, but their bloated egos are incapable of registering anything beyond “me, me, me”.
A baby born to a tribe in the jungles of Africa are either a boy or a girl, nobody is assigning anything. I wasn't assigned a boy, I have a penis, yep......boy.
This whole thing is so damn ridiculous hard to believe it;s actually happening.
Guys thinking they are girls, are you kidding me?
Any guy who needs to take on girls in any sport is a wimp.
A baby born to a tribe in the jungles of Africa are either a boy or a girl, nobody is assigning anything. I wasn't assigned a boy, I have a penis, yep......boy.
This whole thing is so damn ridiculous hard to believe it;s actually happening.
Guys thinking they are girls, are you kidding me?
Any guy who needs to take on girls in any sport is a wimp.
A person born without a penis and assigned female at birth.
So a trans runner demolishes the field in the final. How must that feel for the second place finisher (an actual girl)? Now apparently, she get the points and the #1 podium spot. But did she really experience the elation of winning?
What a joke. Stop this nonsense now. The Californians are twisting themselves into pretzels to protect cheaters. Why not allow dopers to compete as well, but just don't score them?
You can bet Hernandez is thrilled about the attention, hoping it will raise attendance so more people can see him adjust his tucked junk and special lacy socks with silk garters that help him leap farther…
The whole thing is a cruel joke on women and fans, and Hernandez and his nutty mother should be ashamed, but their bloated egos are incapable of registering anything beyond “me, me, me”.
Just watching the way he moves out there makes it obvious he isn’t a girl. Disgusting.
A baby born to a tribe in the jungles of Africa are either a boy or a girl, nobody is assigning anything. I wasn't assigned a boy, I have a penis, yep......boy.
This whole thing is so damn ridiculous hard to believe it;s actually happening.
Guys thinking they are girls, are you kidding me?
Any guy who needs to take on girls in any sport is a wimp.
A person born without a penis and assigned female at birth.
Regardless of your opinion on Trump, it is strange to me that any athlete or former athlete would support allowing biological boys to compete against girls in a division for girls.
Then I will explain it to you. I've been arguing that point with others in the trans community, without much success, since Caster Semenya and other high-T intersex people were winning women's Olympic and World Championship medals (as trans women never have, even under more permissive policies than the current ones).
Of course self-identification doesn't work for women's sports. Obviously it's testosterone, not gender identity, that primarily creates the gap between male and female athletes. Sports governing bodies can and should make policies that acknowledge this. The current World Athletics policy allows for trans women who did not go past Tanner Stage 2 of male puberty to compete with women. The arguments are much the same as for those with CAIS, who are also allowed to compete.
All of this is now beside the point, because the goal of those driving this is not fairness in women's sports (though they find those who do genuinely care about this, but don't see the bigger picture, useful), but to define trans women as men for the purpose of sports as a lever to define them as men (and trans men as women) for all purposes -- to make transition illegal for adults as well as children, as some Republican legislators in Ohio already admit they intend -- to pass laws deeming it felony fraud for a trans woman to so much as state to her employer that she is a woman, as is already a bill in the Texas legislature -- to make it unviable for any trans person who doesn't already pass flawlessly as a cis person of their gender to live their lives, and to leave those in endless fear that they might be outed or their documentation changes might be discovered -- and then to deliver on this fear.
Their goal is evil and should be opposed in every way possible. So, no, I'm not going to add my voice to those using this as a weapon against trans people.
The state of the left here. No, don't get me wrong. I’m not one to to engage in pointless character attacks or to paint an entire group of people with a broad brush, but for heaven's sake, it seems like the left right now is nothing short of overwhelmingly miserable and heartbreakingly misinformed. It's as if reality has been tossed out the window all for the sake of screaming the loudest and being seen to rock the boat. Now, I'm not one to shy away from acknowledging the diversity of opinions. I get it, that's what makes a democratic society diverse and vibrant. But damn it, there are some f-ing lines that simply shouldn't be crossed. The most recent controversy that’s really grinding my gears involves this asinine idea of allowing males to compete against women in sports. Kindly tell me how in the blue hell is this fair? How is it not fundamentally abhorrent to stack the odds in a way that flagrantly disregards simple f-ing biology? This isn’t about diversity or inclusivity anymore. This is about stripping away the legitimacy and competitive fairness that defines sports to begin with. It's about the principles and values that sports are built upon and fundamentally, it's about respecting women and the strides they've made in the field of sports. Can we just take a step back here and understand the utter disservice we’re doing to women? We're undoing years of hard-fought battles for equality, spaces, and respect. And for what? So that we can pander to attention-seeking antics? Some things just aren't worth the attention, especially when that attention comes at the expense of fairness and equity. Don't misunderstand me, this isn't about hating on any side of the political spectrum. But if we can't call out bs when we see it, then what the hell is the point of discourse in a democracy? Damn it, we're better than this. We must be better than this.
Regardless of your opinion on Trump, it is strange to me that any athlete or former athlete would support allowing biological boys to compete against girls in a division for girls.
Then I will explain it to you. I've been arguing that point with others in the trans community, without much success, since Caster Semenya and other high-T intersex people were winning women's Olympic and World Championship medals (as trans women never have, even under more permissive policies than the current ones).
Of course self-identification doesn't work for women's sports. Obviously it's testosterone, not gender identity, that primarily creates the gap between male and female athletes. Sports governing bodies can and should make policies that acknowledge this. The current World Athletics policy allows for trans women who did not go past Tanner Stage 2 of male puberty to compete with women. The arguments are much the same as for those with CAIS, who are also allowed to compete.
All of this is now beside the point, because the goal of those driving this is not fairness in women's sports (though they find those who do genuinely care about this, but don't see the bigger picture, useful), but to define trans women as men for the purpose of sports as a lever to define them as men (and trans men as women) for all purposes -- to make transition illegal for adults as well as children, as some Republican legislators in Ohio already admit they intend -- to pass laws deeming it felony fraud for a trans woman to so much as state to her employer that she is a woman, as is already a bill in the Texas legislature -- to make it unviable for any trans person who doesn't already pass flawlessly as a cis person of their gender to live their lives, and to leave those in endless fear that they might be outed or their documentation changes might be discovered -- and then to deliver on this fear.
Their goal is evil and should be opposed in every way possible. So, no, I'm not going to add my voice to those using this as a weapon against trans people.
I don’t believe this entire “trans” nonsense. One cannot just decide to change your sex and expect everyone else to support this delusion. I am not familiar with the proposed laws you mentioned, but it certainly seems dishonest for a man to claim he’s a woman to an employer or to anyone else.
California, under the leadership of Radical Left Democrat Gavin Newscum, continues to ILLEGALLY allow “MEN TO PLAY IN WOMEN’S SPORTS.” This week a transitioned Male athlete, at a major event, won “everything,” and is now qualified to compete in the “State Finals” next weekend. As a Male, he was a less than average competitor. As a Female, this transitioned person is practically unbeatable. THIS IS NOT FAIR, AND TOTALLY DEMEANING TO WOMEN AND GIRLS. Please be hereby advised that large scale Federal Funding will be held back, maybe permanently, if the Executive Order on this subject matter is not adhered to. The Governor, himself, said it is “UNFAIR.” I will speak to him today to find out which way he wants to go??? In the meantime I am ordering local authorities, if necessary, to not allow the transitioned person to compete in the State Finals. This is a totally ridiculous situation!!!
Why are so many people fooled into thinking the issue is political, and it is popular among Democrats to have transitioned females compete in women's sports? Didn't someone just post a poll saying that even among Democrats, 67% don't think it is fair.
Constitutionally speaking, this has little to do with the office of the president, or state governor. Trump's executive orders oversteps the authority of the executive office. Congress is the body which should pass legislation as well as decide funding.
Trump also has no class when he says things like "Radical Left Democrat Gavin Newscum" (who apparently also thinks it is "unfair"), but for some reason, this lack of class seems to appeal to his followers.
Isn't there a way to protect women's sports, and still provide all kids with the emotional support they need to fit in society, without making it political, and without having to persecute a minority group and without demonizing the Democrats for a position they do not hold? It seems that World Athletics is heading in the right direction (but would still ban boys who have gone through puberty from competing in women's events) for DSD and transgender athletes, although there will never be a "one-size-fits-all" solution that satisfies everyone.
In WV they had a boy, in the girls class, finish 8th in the shot and 3rd in the disc. Obviously his distance wouldn’t have even made him anywhere near the top throwers on his team, on the male side, let alone the throwers probabaly even the male sprinters could have out threw him as well. Weak distance runners he would probably smoke not gonna lie there.
I thought this was a state to state decision and WV lol , definitely didn’t approve of this but they keep appealing to the right judges and keep stringing this out.
California, under the leadership of Radical Left Democrat Gavin Newscum, continues to ILLEGALLY allow “MEN TO PLAY IN WOMEN’S SPORTS.” This week a transitioned Male athlete, at a major event, won “everything,” and is now qualified to compete in the “State Finals” next weekend. As a Male, he was a less than average competitor. As a Female, this transitioned person is practically unbeatable. THIS IS NOT FAIR, AND TOTALLY DEMEANING TO WOMEN AND GIRLS. Please be hereby advised that large scale Federal Funding will be held back, maybe permanently, if the Executive Order on this subject matter is not adhered to. The Governor, himself, said it is “UNFAIR.” I will speak to him today to find out which way he wants to go??? In the meantime I am ordering local authorities, if necessary, to not allow the transitioned person to compete in the State Finals. This is a totally ridiculous situation!!!
Why are so many people fooled into thinking the issue is political, and it is popular among Democrats to have transitioned females compete in women's sports? Didn't someone just post a poll saying that even among Democrats, 67% don't think it is fair.
Constitutionally speaking, this has little to do with the office of the president, or state governor. Trump's executive orders oversteps the authority of the executive office. Congress is the body which should pass legislation as well as decide funding.
Trump also has no class when he says things like "Radical Left Democrat Gavin Newscum" (who apparently also thinks it is "unfair"), but for some reason, this lack of class seems to appeal to his followers.
Isn't there a way to protect women's sports, and still provide all kids with the emotional support they need to fit in society, without making it political, and without having to persecute a minority group and without demonizing the Democrats for a position they do not hold? It seems that World Athletics is heading in the right direction (but would still ban boys who have gone through puberty from competing in women's events) for DSD and transgender athletes, although there will never be a "one-size-fits-all" solution that satisfies everyone.
I agree with your Trump comments. He’s an @$$ but we had two terrible choices. How can you say with a straight face that this isn’t political??? Both sides use it politically. Anything they think they can gain an edge with they’re going to use politically. Are you trolling? Also why should 99.9% of the athletic population cater to the .1%? Even if that .1% has a descent argument, like the dsd athletes or whatever, it still doesn’t make since to change any rules for them. Life is unfair better they learn it now.
I agree with your Trump comments. He’s an @$ but we had two terrible choices. How can you say with a straight face that this isn’t political??? Both sides use it politically. Anything they think they can gain an edge with they’re going to use politically. Are you trolling? Also why should 99.9% of the athletic population cater to the .1%? Even if that .1% has a descent argument, like the dsd athletes or whatever, it still doesn’t make since to change any rules for them. Life is unfair better they learn it now.
Maybe because I see one side using it as a political wedge to justify broad cruelty to vulnerable populations while blaming "the libs" for a position that they do not generally hold.
Even Trump says "The Governor, himself, said it is "UNFAIR."", yet in the same post, Trump knowingly attacks the Governor as "Radical Left" for a position that he knows the Governor doesn't hold. Trump didn't invent this, but is tapping into a broad base who wants to hear that its the fault of the trans and the libs.
I mainly speak for myself, and again point you to the aforementioned poll that 67% of Democrats or Democrat leaning oppose transgender competing in women's categories. I'm not in favor of boys/men with a testosterone and puberty advantage competing against girls/women, but this can be addressed without the demonizing vulnerable marginalized populations, and/or a whole political party. I think we should follow the example of World Athletics, and come up with an acceptable compromise that protects women's sports while removing the hatred.
Autogynephiles (so-called transwomen) perform as their perception of what a woman is. So you often see them assume exaggerated female qualities that actually mock women.
A baby born to a tribe in the jungles of Africa are either a boy or a girl, nobody is assigning anything. I wasn't assigned a boy, I have a penis, yep......boy.
This whole thing is so damn ridiculous hard to believe it;s actually happening.
Guys thinking they are girls, are you kidding me?
Any guy who needs to take on girls in any sport is a wimp.
It really feels like a lot of your anger on this topic is because you didn't have the opportunity to become your true self when you grew up in the 40s.
You should be happy for people today to not have to hide in the closet and pretend to be tough guys, while calling others sissies as an insult.
I know the end is near for you, but you should really consider visiting a therapist so you don't die an angry, bitter old bigot.