Yes
His mileage is similar to college days but pretty clear progression strength side so not the same training at all; if he keeps doing the work he can get <3:29, his best chance at an AR might be 2000m, his best chance for medals now is 1500.
Holy $&*$ America Jonah Koech runs 3:31 to win Rabat Diamond League
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Coevett wrote:
Did Rekrunner forget he had logouted and in again here (and your next post about Koech's age!!)?
You're seriously comparing Koech's numerous b-level mile times to a couple of 10K training runs from Mills four years ago? BTW, Mills was almost just 21 then, and had last raced in July, so presumably he was coming back from injury. Just 2 or 3 years before that he had had two years wiped out from career threatening injuries, so I can imagine he would have been reluctant to go for the 10K road WR on his return.
So we can be reassured that Koech is not doping, despite coming from a country that has had 400+ doping busts and improving his 1500m pb by over 6 seconds at almost 29...I mean almost 27, because Mills ran a couple of slowish 10K training runs coming back from injury four years ago in his first ever races longer than one mile.
No, I compared Koech's early-career XC chops (11th at NCAA XC, 1st and 2nd at Mountain Regional) to Mills's over distance background. I would've banked the guy with 1:44 speed and those XC credentials to be capable of a strong 1500 one day. Not as much the stagnant 1:46 guy who was blah in some 10Ks. Care to look up how old Koech was he ran them, Coevy? Clearly, this is a runner who had amazing endurance for an 800m man.
And I'm not telling you Mills is doping, I'd like to believe he was simply an injured athlete who wrongly thought he was fast enough for the 800 long-term. It's a great story, generally. Though Mills' insistence on eating unseasoned chicken is completely bizarre: .
It seems he isn't fast enough for the 1500/mile either, but I digress.
Of course, we can't be assured that Koech is not doping. We can't for any runner, the sport has a lot of doping. But we can also not say he is 100% doping just because of his age, which you keep butchering and some 1500m PBs without context (run winning by 3s against crap fields in an off event). Or his country of origin, and training situation. Tons of elite runners train in Kenya including non-Kenyans. Not all are doping. The same is true of Colorado Springs, where there've been doping positives. Koech training in Kenya for a couple months doesn't really move me either way. You can dope anywhere, and I've seen athletes popped in Kenya and America.33 -
WTF are you talking about? He was European U18 800m champion and one of the most talented juniors Britain has ever produced. He had virtually two entire seasons as a teen after that wiped out through injury. But you're insinuating he's doping because it appears his best events might be the 3000/5000m 10 years later? One reason for that anyway is simply because the 1500m is so stacked now, including in Britain.
Yeah, only you, Rekkie, and the likes of Hoady think that it has no bearing that a guy comes from Kenya or Morocco where doping and day to day corruption are part of the culture.
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Coevett wrote:
WTF are you talking about? He was European U18 800m champion and one of the most talented juniors Britain has ever produced. He had virtually two entire seasons as a teen after that wiped out through injury. But you're insinuating he's doping because it appears his best events might be the 3000/5000m 10 years later? One reason for that anyway is simply because the 1500m is so stacked now, including in Britain.
Yeah, only you, Rekkie, and the likes of Hoady think that it has no bearing that a guy comes from Kenya or Morocco where doping and day to day corruption are part of the culture.
Relax, I literally wrote "I'm not telling you Mills is doping." I just said on blind resume Koech was a really strong 1500m prospect based on running 1:44.3/XC results. That's stronger than Mills, though Mills had youth on his side when he had his breakthrough.
I don't think it has NO bearing on Koech that he is from Kenya, but I also don't see the world in your terms where he MUST be doping because of it.
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Chhvjv wrote:
Yes, this year is weird.
25 year old Hoey goes from 3:38 to 3:33.
Now, 28 year old Koech one ups him by going from 3:37 to 3:31. He ran the mile pretty much every year since 2016. He was already running 4:00 back in 2016, yet has never broken 4. His PB is from 2022 (4:00.2).
Well he should definitely give the mile another go having gone 3:31
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Coevett wrote:
WTF are you talking about? He was European U18 800m champion and one of the most talented juniors Britain has ever produced. He had virtually two entire seasons as a teen after that wiped out through injury. But you're insinuating he's doping because it appears his best events might be the 3000/5000m 10 years later? One reason for that anyway is simply because the 1500m is so stacked now, including in Britain.
Yeah, only you, Rekkie, and the likes of Hoady think that it has no bearing that a guy comes from Kenya or Morocco where doping and day to day corruption are part of the culture.
If Koech did indeed go to Kenya to train it’s a done deal considering the sudden improvement. He hit the needle. One can train at altitude many places, not necessarily a country with 400 suspensions. Qutie a trip to take for training, even if he was born there. People just love to cover their eyes when it comes to Africans. Oh those poor people.
People try to bring up Hoey but in fact the situations are different, and Hoey doesn’t have protective coloring.52 -
Can Someone please post the entire race of the mens 1500 final at the Rabat Diamond League meet. I can't seem to find it
Thx
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Every time an American wins a diamond league i want to
Personally congratulate them and
Oppose any accusations of cheating
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Coevett wrote:
Yeah, only you, Rekkie, and the likes of Hoady think that it has no bearing that a guy comes from Kenya or Morocco where doping and day to day corruption are part of the culture.
Given your consistent serial reading comprehension failures, I'm not really sure you can separate what I really think from what you say I think.
Note when it comes to doping potentially causing unnatural elite performances, "Thoughtsleader" and I are not on the same page. His thoughts and suspicions are more in line with the conventional popular ones. I don't know who Hoady is -- he seems to be an amalgam of several posters.
As a guide and reference, here are some of my thoughts:
I look at these things on a case by case basis. Jonah Koech isn't the son of a poor rural farmer looking to make his family/village rich. He is a US citizen since 2019, who went to University and is in the US Army WCAP program. On the contrary, I would think, given his steady income with the Army, it seems unlikely he would jeopardize that now by doping in Kenya.
Based on WADA documents, I think the Kenyan doping problem was partly imported into Kenya by foreign coaches and agents (but I think not so much the Italian ones as commonly thought) in addition to local pharmacists/doctors intentionally exploiting athletes in addition to athlete/doctor negligence of athlete obligations during standard medical care.
If you want to implicate whole nations like Kenya and Morocco, what is missing for me is the percentage of prevelance among tested athletes, preferably broken down by gender and discipline. For example, can we estimate that more than 10% of Kenyan male middle distance athletes intentionally dope with the goal of performance enhancement? I would not try to answer this from a total number of accumulated busts over all disciplines combining men and women and elite and sub-elite class road and track athletes, which is a complex product of both high performance and non-uniform targeted testing.
I also think 3:31 has no bearing on whether he doped or not. We can find athletes at all levels of performance who dope. Koech's main event is the 800m, and not the 1500m. I think it is not unusual he would have a breakout performance in an event he doesn't usually race, or in an event he occasionally races where times are usually slow. I wouldn't suspect Koech any more than I would suspect Andrew Wheating. Furthermore, given that Coe from 1981 was still #3 all time in the 800m before the era of supershoes, I'm not convinced that a PED even exists for the 1:44 runner in Koech's preferred event -- unless Cram/Coe/Ovett were all also taking the same PEDs back in the 1980s -- nor that a PED exists that could turn a 3:37 runner into a 3:31 runner.
Having said all of that, I am always ready to listen to any substantial arguments to the contrary.
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Chhvjv wrote:
Yes, this year is weird.
25 year old Hoey goes from 3:38 to 3:33.
Now, 28 year old Koech one ups him by going from 3:37 to 3:31. He ran the mile pretty much every year since 2016. He was already running 4:00 back in 2016, yet has never broken 4. His PB is from 2022 (4:00.2).
He ran sub-4:00 (3:58.0) on the road:
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