It is amazing how much space they use to explain the discrepancy between the USA Swimming policy and NCAA policy. given the USA Swimming policy will become the NCAA swimming policy.
It is also amazing that some athletes in sports which do not currently have known trans athletes are among the plaintiffs because they might have unwittingly competed against trans athletes and they may do so again in future. Do they have legal standing?
I have no reaction to the photos. Their advantage isn't in their appearance.
It's strange very strange that you think that looking female is the same thing as being female.
No, I don't think looking female is the same as being female. I was just trying to point out some (indeed many) people would have no reaction to those photos. You seem to be one of them.
Still male. You appear to be really hung up on appearance. It's strange. Looking female and being female are never going to be the same thing. No matter how badly you want it to be, it isn't.
Both were assigned female at birth, and have been legally recognized as female for their entire lives. Chromosomes alone do not determine who is or is not a woman.
I have never seen a photo or a video clip of XX male person. I could have posted it if I knew where to find it.
This post was edited 25 seconds after it was posted.
If you're getting emails from multiple GOP candidates asking you for money - with or without pics of Lia Thomas - it's because you've contributed to GOP candidates in the past - or you've been a member and supporter of orgs that are in synch with the GOP and sell their mailing and donor lists to GOP candidates. Like the NRA.
You don't seem to know how the mailing list sharing actually works. Rachel Maddow and Lawrence O'Donnell, among other people, constantly receive emails from GOP campaigns.
And I don't live in CA. I have visited the state many times, but have not been there since 2019. I live in a deep Red state, and even a deeper Red county that voted 70+% for Trump in both elections.
They are talking exclusively about K-12 sports. They say IOC and NCAA can do whatever they want about Olympians and college athletes. Listen to the Congressman's opening statement in the video I linked.
It’s rich that you’re accusing someone else of being underhanded by moving the goalposts when in the next breath you try to gain the upper hand in a dishonest way by telling big fat porkie pie lies about the lawsuit filed by Selina Soule, Chelsea Mitchell and Alanna Smith against the Connecticut authorities who allowed two teenage boys, Andraya Yearwood and Terry Miller, to compete and dominate in girls’ HS sprints for several years running starting in 2017-18.
Never once in the original lawsuit filed in February 2020 or in any subsequent filings or oral arguments have the plaintiffs taken the position you falsely attribute to them.
The plaintiffs never asked or suggested that Yearwood and Miller take a year off from girls’ track so that they could use drugs to try lower the amount of testosterone their testicles pump out, then return to girls’ competition after a year of drug use - as though that would be a “fair and square” way of resolving the huge problem of boys like Yearwood and Miller muscling in on HS girls’s sports.
The original lawsuit clearly says that even if Yearwood and Miller were taking, or had taken, drugs to lower their testosterone levels, feminize their appearance, lower their hemoglobin, it would make no difference. They still wouldn't belong in the female category of sports.
Pages 19-20:
56. Plaintiffs do not know whether or if so at what time the male students who are competing in CIAC track events [Yearwood and Miller] began taking cross-sex hormones. Nor does this matter.
Administering testosterone-suppressing drugs to males by no means eliminates their performance advantage. Some physiological advantages— such as bone size and hip configuration—cannot be reversed once they have occurred. And suppressing testosterone in men after puberty also does not completely reverse their advantages in muscle mass and strength, bone mineral density, lung size, or heart size.
57. This reality is evident in the performance of male athletes who have competed “as women” after taking cross-sex hormones. For example, CeCe Telfer, a male who ran as Craig Telfer throughout high school and the first two years of college, certified compliance with the NCAA requirement of one year on testosterone-suppressing drugs and began competing in female track events in CeCe’s senior collegiate year, for the 2019 indoor and outdoor track and field seasons. CeCe’s “personal best” did not go down substantially in any event following at least a year on testosterone suppressing drugs, and in a number of events instead improved:
From the get-go, the lawsuit filed by Soule, Mitchell and Smith always asked that, effective immediately, CT’s policy allowing males to compete in girls' HS sports based on the males' gender identity claims be rescinded - and that a rule be put in place barring all male students from competing in girls’ HS track and field in CT.
The female plaintiffs in the Soule case have always sought to return fairness to girls’ HS sports in CT by getting officials to bar all male teenagers from HS girls’ competition across the board - regardless of how the male teens say they “identify” and what drugs they take or have taken in the past.
They were voicing their opinions way before they field a lawsuit in 2020. Here is their petition in 2018, started by Selina Soule's mother.
Stanescu has asked the Connecticut Interscholastic Athletic Conference to only allow male-to-female transgender athletes to compete with girls if they undergo testosterone suppression treatment and wait a certain period.
Parents of high school girl’s track and field athletes are crying foul over a pair of transgendered athletes who swept the competition at the Connecticut state track and field championships.
Riley Gaines on the right, and trans kids she has doxed on the left. Have we heard anything from any of those kids? I haven't. If you know their response, please post it here.
Riley Gaines on the right, and trans kids she has doxed on the left. Have we heard anything from any of those kids? I haven't. If you know their response, please post it here.
Why is it that right-wingers always need help with elementary-level vocabulary when it comes to this topic?
”what is a woman?” “What is equality?” If you are having trouble knowing the answers to these questions, then I don’t think you are qualified to have the bigger debate.
It’s why things like Title IX exist. If you ban transgender athletes, that’s not equal.
Two points starting with your last sentence first 1) I think people who think females should compete with females and males with males (or an open category) for elite sport do not think want transgender athletes banned, they want them to compete in the category of their biological sex. Lia Thomas is free to swim with the other biological males. If you want to not call this the "men's category" go ahead and come up with a new term. But I don't have to pretend that she is not a biological male.
2) You act like the definition of words don't matter but defining what a woman is is essential to this debate. For the longest time for most people woman meant female. Now non "right-wingers" are changing what these words mean.
At first everyone was in agreement, we'll use the word transgender woman, denoting that a transgender woman was different than a biological woman. Everyone knows this. Then the goal posts shifted, and now some people want us to refer to transgender women and non-transgender women as women with no qualifier.
Extending this further, female no longer means female to some, so I've started using the term "biological female."
But essentially the changing language is trying to erase the sex differences out of the picture.
The end result of this for some is sex is not a biological thing at all, but defined at how you dress and what you wear. Pretty crazy in my opinion.
I have 2 daughters. I will always have 2 daughters. I will tell them being a woman or female is not defined by what they where or how they dress but it is related to their sex. Their sex can not change.
I have not problem calling Caitlyn Jenner a transgender woman, but she agrees that males should not compete with females in elite sport. Is she, the person who has done arguable the most for trans acceptance in the world, transphobic?
The very nature of men and women (or males and females if you're really objecting to my language) is that they are biologically different. Now we are supposed to pretend that the main thing that makes someone a female or a male is what clothes they where and how they act?
I have not problem calling Caitlyn Jenner a transgender woman, but she agrees that males should not compete with females in elite sport. Is she, the person who has done arguable the most for trans acceptance in the world, transphobic?
The very nature of men and women (or males and females if you're really objecting to my language) is that they are biologically different. Now we are supposed to pretend that the main thing that makes someone a female or a male is what clothes they where and how they act?
That is a regressive stereotype.
Is this supposed to be satire?
And no, it's not what clothes they wear and how they act.
Don’t even bother arguing with the woke sheep who say “trans women are women.” The people whose opinions matter have already been convinced. Trans are essentially banned from the female category in college next year, and they are already banned from elite competition. That battle has been won. The battle remains to get trans women out of the girls category at the high school level.
The problem with threads like these are that all the young people, who want to whine and cry about politics, tend to inhibit actual conversation among adults.
It is true that it isn't fundamentally about appearance nor genetics, but both are HIGHLY correlated to physiology, which is where the actual issue is.
And it is also important to keep in mind that the intersex issue, although different, is impacted in mostly the same ways.
If the children who whine that we should close our eyes and ignore the problem, would just remember that pretending trans athletes don't exist, does not make the actual intersex problem disappear, that would be a step forward.
It is amazing how much space they use to explain the discrepancy between the USA Swimming policy and NCAA policy. given the USA Swimming policy will become the NCAA swimming policy.
It is also amazing that some athletes in sports which do not currently have known trans athletes are among the plaintiffs because they might have unwittingly competed against trans athletes and they may do so again in future. Do they have legal standing?
absolutely NOT. they should be dropped. the track girl from ark is a know bigot and he dad works for a right wing news show. funnt she sucks at track.
The "what is a woman?" puzzles me. It seems that absent of a disorder of sexual development (DSD) who are in their own category for the purposes of this discussion, a woman is an adult person with XX chromosomes.
Considering people with a DSD there is the added complexity of a decision made at birth or shortly afterwards to assign a sex but I have no issues at all (for example) that an XY person with CAIS is a woman because she will never have had any changes to the body caused by testosterone because her body cannot respond to it. Obviously this is a simple case, there are many more complicated DSD conditions.
once again, a person with backwards right-wing views admits to being puzzled by very simple questions. If they struggle to even reconcile what they think a woman is, how are they supposed to form an opinion on who should be in women’s sports?
A couple things -- what is that website this "article" is posted on? Dozens is a weird way to say how many people are a part of the lawsuit. Does that mean 13 or a lot more than that? Seems like not a huge # regardless. Gaines not using Leah's pronouns is petty. No reason to do that even if you want to change the rules.
I've said this again & fully expect a down vote but Utah, a conservative state, looked into banning HS transgender athletes & their governor vetoed a bill that would do that because there were only 4 transgender athletes in the entire state & none of them competed at a high level. This is the reality. Most transgender athletes are just trying to be kids/make friends. They're not taking away scholarships or opportunities in droves. These websites that have a political leaning make it a point to tell you about every Leah Thomas. You know every Leah Thomas but you don't know the names/faces of the 99.9% of other transgender athletes that never get close to that level.
I'm not saying governing bodies shouldn't figure this out but I don't think the problem warrants this much time/energy &, at times, hate. Leah Thomas is done swimming. It could be a very long time until LRC tells us who the next Leah Thomas is. & maybe that's enough for governing bodies to figure that out but let's leave some of the rhetoric out of this conversation & try to do it with some tact.
once again, a person with backwards right-wing views admits to being puzzled by very simple questions. If they struggle to even reconcile what they think a woman is, how are they supposed to form an opinion on who should be in women’s sports?
Hi, I am from the UK, I am a lifelong Labour party voter. If you look up what that means you will find that it is probably what Americans consider socialist.
When I say " I am puzzled by the question" what puzzles me is that it is even a question because it is suggesting that there is not an extremely simple and obvious scientific reply.
I know comprehension is hard for you so I could try again with shorter words.
once again, a person with backwards right-wing views admits to being puzzled by very simple questions. If they struggle to even reconcile what they think a woman is, how are they supposed to form an opinion on who should be in women’s sports?
Hi, I am from the UK, I am a lifelong Labour party voter. If you look up what that means you will find that it is probably what Americans consider socialist.
When I say " I am puzzled by the question" what puzzles me is that it is even a question because it is suggesting that there is not an extremely simple and obvious scientific reply.
I know comprehension is hard for you so I could try again with shorter words.
Sounds like the British school system is the culprit.
How you tell if someone is a woman: you ask “are you a man or a woman?” They will give you the answer. Not “science” required, my old chap.
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