Fair enough, though I have to quibble over your semifinal comment. His official split was 50.6 but in reality he ran more like 51-high or perhaps 52-low. It was much faster than 53 in any case, but I’m glad we agree on the larger point. Too many posters underestimate how fast the “slow” guys really are.
Yes, and too many do not understand the “rules” for a home straight / last 200m “kick” in the 1500m:
1. In a really slow race the 800m fast guys can out kick the others because a slow first 700m of a 1500m makes it mimic an 800m race.
2. In a fast 1500m race (and even a medium fast one) the strongest / best 1500m runner “out kicks” the others f.ex in the home straight (because of more left in the tank the last few hundred meters).
3. There are a few exceptions, f.ex Nordås. Beamish and Kincaid (none of them fast 800m runners) -these guys can kick hard even when they are very near an all out pace / exhaustion. But freaks like these are very rare, and kind of “godly blessed” (though there are some down to earth explanations here as well)…
1. it depends on what you mean by REALLY slow. In the 2004 olympic final, it was ElG, Lagat, and Rui Silva all ran 1:46 point for final 800. We can all quibble over ElG's real 800 ability, but it is fairly settled that Lagat did not have 800 speed, but was able to run damn near his full 800 pace, in a 3:34 race, just on pure strength.
Yeah, so actually at the end of the day all these talk about who can run what pace off of what PB in a slow or fast race is all just BS! At the end of the day, it's who can RACE the best which actually means whose NERVOUS SYSTEM is communicating the best in space-time which means that anthropogenic RF and EMF exposures take a center stage in such conversations!!! Not so much caffeine, EPO or race tactics!!!
Racing well is all about the nervous system, your nerve fibres, your myelin sheaths damn it!!! It's whose myelin sheaths are most well-formed and protected. All the training is the same for everybody. There is not significant difference between Lydiard training, Norwegian training, Salaazar training, or Canova training, it's all the same and any difference is completely PLACEBO OR EGOTISTICAL!!!! It's just bragging rights and intellectual property patent!!!
What is different and can be different is how a rural east african kenyan living on a bushland devoid of anthropogenic RF and EMF receives nearly 0 exposure and irradiation all his life than Clayton Young, Grant Fisher, Yared Nuguse etc.
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going even further, Centro was far from the fastest 800 man in 2016 and still slayed everyone else in that final 400.
Yes, but that was mainly because of his supreme positioning and control of the pace. And being in the front gave him a lot of the advantages people forget Jakob also will have…
The mistake is thinking that he has to lead because he is so much slower than the others. His semifinal in Budapest (3:35 comfortably closing in 51-high) should have put that to rest,
I'd forgotten about that race but it connfirms John Kellogg's suspicion - even it's somehwat slow, normally they end up roughly in order of their pbs.
I just timed his last lap in 51.99 but you can't see him at the bell. HIs time 3:34.98
Jakob Ingebrigtsen clinched a spot in Wednesday night's 1500m final at World Championships with a dominant final lap which included him imploring the crowd t...
Yeah it’s probably 52.0-1. He hits the mile mark .8 after Kerr and the leader to finish split is 52.86. Faster than I remember…he can close and I do think his best move is a 600-800 run from home a la El G. I understand he wants to do a better frontrun execution when not sick or making tactical blunders. It remains risky, when we see how calm a tactician he is in the pack and his engine.
going even further, Centro was far from the fastest 800 man in 2016 and still slayed everyone else in that final 400.
No but as a 1:44 guy he was close enough to everyone else that things like position matter. In fast races position rarely matters as the field gets strung out and you can run at 3:30 pace freely. when you are running 3:50 and hang out in the back, being able to use your kick is pure chance. See kiprops burning energy left and right.
personally I would like JI chances more in the slow race with the fast last 800 than trying to run away from the field. it is hard to pass someone if they do a 55/52 type close.
52 final 400m in supershoes and doped track surfaces is slow compared to 51.9 for El G at Athens for final 400m in horrible shoes and slow track surfaces. Just FYI yeah? Just some context for you folks on how this current generation of athletes are PHYSICALLY WEAKER than the previous generation, doping being equal.........due to anthropogenic RF and EMF increased exposure!
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Blah blah blah all these people trying to analyze middle distance races don’t understand that anything can happen in a 1500m final. It’s always been somebody we never expected. Did anybody herre seriously expect wightman to win in 2022 or kerr in 2023 after lackluster diamond league performances. If anything I would go with Abel Kipsang for the surprise win this year.
You actually have a point ....1500M Races are almost always won by the underdog at the Olympics ....sans El Gherouj 04 since 2000 nobody we thought was gonna win won ever!
heck even Jakob won as the underdog when we were all expecting Tim C
We’re very old school with how we approach it from having a bit more speed. In championship races that always gives you a chance. So it’s tough for Jakob. You’d rather be in our situation.
They just don't get him. Jakob talked about this multiple times - he doesn't want a chance to win, he wants to dominate from the front. For him it's either gold or last place, nothing in between. He's very explicit that he in fact DOESN'T want to be in their situation.
But he does want to be like them when running the 5000? He doesn't lead that from the front because he knows it is not to his advantage.
Ingebrigtsen is running in the style that maximizes his chances to do well, which changes depending upon the length of the race. Wightman and Kerr are doing thing, but they have different tactics because they have different strengths and weaknesses.
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going even further, Centro was far from the fastest 800 man in 2016 and still slayed everyone else in that final 400.
No but as a 1:44 guy he was close enough to everyone else that things like position matter. In fast races position rarely matters as the field gets strung out and you can run at 3:30 pace freely. when you are running 3:50 and hang out in the back, being able to use your kick is pure chance. See kiprops burning energy left and right.
personally I would like JI chances more in the slow race with the fast last 800 than trying to run away from the field. it is hard to pass someone if they do a 55/52 type close.
Jakob could do the same thing. I don't believe it has to do with Centro's 1:44.6 being "close enough." would be shocked if Jakob couldn't run a low 50 off a pace that slow.
They just don't get him. Jakob talked about this multiple times - he doesn't want a chance to win, he wants to dominate from the front. For him it's either gold or last place, nothing in between. He's very explicit that he in fact DOESN'T want to be in their situation.
He has no alternative. He can't beat them in a sprint finish. He isn't fast enough. But he always wants to win.
This is all I've be. Trying to say lol. JI runs to his strengths. And they run to theirs. The more traditional 1500m approach seems superior to me in regards to championship 1500s. The last front runner to win was 2019.
But he does want to be like them when running the 5000? He doesn't lead that from the front because he knows it is not to his advantage.
Ingebrigtsen is running in the style that maximizes his chances to do well, which changes depending upon the length of the race. Wightman and Kerr are doing thing, but they have different tactics because they have different strengths and weaknesses.
Jakob led the few last laps in the WC 2022 5000m despite hot weather and windy conditions. But even more important: He said after the race that this is the right way for him. And since then he has repeated this mantra in multiple interviews. -With him it’s not only about tactics and winning. He wants to win in a dominant fashion, and as a 5000m runner, and not winning on his speed. If one doesn’t understand that the way Jakob wins his races is more important than winning in itself, well, then one hasn’t been listening to what he repeatedly underlines…
Jakob would never run with one of his brothers as pacer (nor any other teammate) -that would violate his codex (that he has constructed all by himself)…
He has no alternative. He can't beat them in a sprint finish. He isn't fast enough. But he always wants to win.
This is all I've be. Trying to say lol. JI runs to his strengths. And they run to theirs. The more traditional 1500m approach seems superior to me in regards to championship 1500s. The last front runner to win was 2019.
Jakob has both strengths. he runs to the one that gives him best odds. everybody else in the field does exactly the same thing because it is their ONLY option.
what jakob does is he brings the race from having 10+ people who have a chance to maybe 4 or 5.
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