The way I see it the athletes know the rules before the race, so it is up to them to finish in a place that gets them on the team. If Tuohy can't beat Kelati in a slow tactical final, well that is her loss.
You feel the same if it’s Andrews instead of Kelati? How about if it’s McGee? (Yeah, maybe teamboss has something up their sleeve.)
why don't you list all of the hypothetical athletes at once. But the answer remains the same!
Monson took the race out at 14:45 pace in the heat...
Monson kept it a race for her kicker teammate to contend for the team, but the faster, younger athlete nonetheless came up short against the older, slower Rogers.
I'm not really sure what you are arguing anymore. Initially you asked why Monson would run a sub 14:52 race when "she doesn't have to". People were just pointing out that she literally just did that this year. She already had the standard and she was still the one to keep it an honest pace.
You don’t think a 14:19 athlete ought to be able to blow the doors off of 14:50 athletes, if she wanted to?
In a championship race? Maybe? Probably? Completely depends on how the race shakes out. If it was a time trial evenly paced for a 14:20 or whatever then yeah Monson would smash any american unless 2020 Schweizer comes back. Things can change if/when she's forced to lead the whole race to avoid a 15:50 kick finish like we had in 2022.
Well since what you call ‘time trial’ pace is de rigueur on the International stage, shouldn’t we be encouraging and sending athletes that can run the standard, rather than milers that can run a passable 3k but are nonetheless ‘connected’ to make it into preferential meets, thus sliding in on ranking?
^I think this was the point the OP was trying to make on the other thread regarding the bogus WA rankings, but the biased tuohy fan doesn’t want to hear it.
Touhy fans are smiling right now. All of you are splicing and dicing a few seconds difference. Touhy fans are probably thinking “wow they’re arguing about should I be compared to monson or Andrews or Kelati or McGee. 1 year ago they argued could I beat markevich or even my teammate chi elm. I’ve been promoted. Keep the arguing going I love this.”
Well since what you call ‘time trial’ pace is de rigueur on the International stage, shouldn’t we be encouraging and sending athletes that can run the standard, rather than milers that can run a passable 3k but are nonetheless ‘connected’ to make it into preferential meets, thus sliding in on ranking?
^I think this was the point the OP was trying to make on the other thread regarding the bogus WA rankings, but the biased tuohy fan doesn’t want to hear it.
You are not making a coherent or consistent argument. Is Tuohy even ranked within the road to Paris quota right now? No. She doesn't have the road to Paris ranking or the standard. Much ado about nothing.
Personally I hope top 3 at trials make it on the team. Simplest and best for runners and fans.
Well since what you call ‘time trial’ pace is de rigueur on the International stage, shouldn’t we be encouraging and sending athletes that can run the standard, rather than milers that can run a passable 3k but are nonetheless ‘connected’ to make it into preferential meets, thus sliding in on ranking?
^I think this was the point the OP was trying to make on the other thread regarding the bogus WA rankings, but the biased tuohy fan doesn’t want to hear it.
What? Why are we talking about another thread? The comment i responded to posed the question as to why Monson would run hard in the US trials if she "doesn't have to". That's all i was responding to as it is clear to everyone else why she might run a sub 14:52 in that race.
Personally I hope top 3 at trials make it on the team. Simplest and best for runners and fans.
Without concern for necessity of making the standard, the US Championshiops regress to slow sit and kick races, preferentially favoring athletes that are less competitive on the International stage.
^Wasn’t this a reason for introducing time standards originally?
Personally I hope top 3 at trials make it on the team. Simplest and best for runners and fans.
Without concern for necessity of making the standard, the US Championshiops regress to slow sit and kick races, preferentially favoring athletes that are less competitive on the International stage.
^Wasn’t this a reason for introducing time standards originally?
So when it was just “top 3, if they have the standard”, that was a fair and simple concept that the fans could understand. It’s when they added the WA ranking criteria, allowing USATF to make judgement calls, into the mix that it became more confusing and less engaging to the fans. Agree?
Without concern for necessity of making the standard, the US Championshiops regress to slow sit and kick races, preferentially favoring athletes that are less competitive on the International stage.
^Wasn’t this a reason for introducing time standards originally?
So when it was just “top 3, if they have the standard”, that was a fair and simple concept that the fans could understand. It’s when they added the WA ranking criteria, allowing USATF to make judgement calls, into the mix, (potentially on top of, in the future, ratcheting down the qualifying time standards that fewer US athletes can meet, essentially making them more meaningless,) that it became more confusing and less engaging to the fans. Agree?
So when it was just “top 3, if they have the standard”, that was a fair and simple concept that the fans could understand. It’s when they added the WA ranking criteria, allowing USATF to make judgement calls, into the mix that it became more confusing and less engaging to the fans. Agree?
Granted the world rankings element adds confusion, but it does not create any judgement calls.
There are countries with no trials, who pick their team per judgement by committee. Even in those cases, the athletes must pass the world athletics standard.
At the time of the US trials and more importantly, at the last qualifying date pre championship, the world standings are right there on the website for all to see.
Yes they were both teen phenoms. It is an insult to Tuohy to say that she wasn't.
Both Rudy Chapa and Rich Kimbal were teen phenoms. The only college result I could find for Kimbal was a 3:47 1500m for San Jose State. Chapa was a top collegiate runner until his senior including a 3000m AR and an NCAA title at 5000m. Fo you consider their running careers to be similar?
Personally I hope top 3 at trials make it on the team. Simplest and best for runners and fans.
Without concern for necessity of making the standard, the US Championshiops regress to slow sit and kick races, preferentially favoring athletes that are less competitive on the International stage.
^Wasn’t this a reason for introducing time standards originally?
WA made the time standards harder precisely so runners would race more often... it's not perfect but whether someone wins a sit and kick or a fast paced race at US trials doesn't really matter.
The last championship sit and kick was won by Cranny, Schweizer, Unfeld. All very deserving. The kick part was a sub 4:30 mile. Not just anyone is going to win.
You clearly value the fast paced time trial races more, but the Olympics, World Championships don't have pacers...
well those are the rules, and as I recall Hocker made the 2021 Olympics based on his "nebulous" ranking as he did not have the standard. I'm sure there are other examples.
Henes has the standard, while Andrews 14:43 will "expire" in May, Kelati does not have the standard, right (14:53.41 6/10/23)?
Andrews does NOT have the standard. The window for the standard started in July so her "one and done" 14:43 doesn't count. And she did nothing but go downhill after that. Sitting on your laurels with a single 3:59 and 14:43 in low key meets and never being able to repeat them or go faster since makes it clear that she's plateaued. I don't think she's a threat to anyone besides Tuohy