I'm pretty sure that there are a lot of letsruns users that could've easily ran 100 miles at 12 minute pace. It might be time to start training for ultras.
Unfortunately for these putative letsrun users, Run Rabbit Run 100 mile race is a a live athletic competition. You have to show up and actually run the race. It does not award prize money to people who "could've easily ran 100 miles at 12 minute pace" unless they actually contest the race.
You can only race the people who show up on race day at the start line. "Would have, could have" doesn't count.
And I also doubt random white boys happen to have some unique technical skills.
How naiive you are. Random white boys do have a very important technical skill that East Africans don't. White boys have the skill of white privilege that affords them luxury and money by birth right. East Africans have to work much harder for much less money to even be able to afford to travel to a race.
just a little reminder to some of the people here that these miles include hills and high altitude. you can't just convert those 100mile times to the marathon and compare yourself to that. with that said, any top level marathoner can probably win this with a month or two of preparation.
This race has had large prize money for a long time and is never competitive. If somebody comes over from “east Africa” and wins, it wouldn’t be all that impressive.
and you can dope to the gills and not get caught as there is no drug testing !
I remember the first time I ran Silver Rush 50 miler which was my first go at an ultra. Michael Aish smashed it that year and then was out helping direct traffic after. Had a good chat with him, super nice guy! Not really much to contribute to the conversation at hand but thought I'd share.
Great stuff - although I've never met him, from interviews I've seen and comments from others like you he sounds like a pretty cool guy. I very much respect that he swallowed his pride and kept at it until he pulled off a finish, it speaks volumes about his character.
Another factor a lot of people on here are forgetting is body type. Just based on the eye test, elite ultra mountain runners look 20-40 Ibs on average heavier than elite Kenyans. I suspect it's something about needing a certain amount of muscle to be resilient in these long mountain ultras. Imagine multiple climbs and descending thousands of feet of elevation. For the roadies who've done Boston, imagine that blown out feeling in your legs but still having several more climbs to go and 50 miles to go. Probably why in Europe a good percentage of the best ultra mountain runners come from a skiing background, they tend to weigh more and are more muscular resilient to these long mountain efforts.
Make it a race that pays out like 10 deep with 50k first places and plenty would decide that it is worthwhile.
back in the 80s there was talk about how the marathon was too long for the Kenyans and the like. Then the incentives changed and they dominated.
now the best Kenyan 100miler might be some 2:15 guy who is too slow to run 2 :05 but who can run all day. He might be somewhat hard to discovery. And I also doubt random white boys happen to have some unique technical skills. That is just a matter of getting some training in.
if you look at the dominant ultra runners, they tend to be the subset with superior hm/marathon times.there are exceptions but the trends are clear. If there is an ultra and you can put you money on 10 people who have run sub 225, 10 people who have run sub 2:35 or 10 who have run sub 2:45, everyone is taking the 2:25 group. The correlation is never 100% but it is still very strong.
You sound like you have no fundamental understanding what kind of skills are needed for a successful trail ultra. You need a good stomach, know what to eat when, a good strategy for clothing, good knowledge how your body reacts, the ability to make good judgements 15 hours into a race when you feel crappy... and then maybe some running skills. It took Jim Walmsley years to get to this point and yet I think he only won because Kilian Jornet was not there. Kilian would have scared the crap out of him.
Why would Walmsley be scared of the guy who's record he just broke? And Walmsley has also run much faster than Killian at Western States. Walmsley didn't move to Europe to prepare for UTMB because he was scared of Killian.
And why do you think those are skills that are unique to white runners? Why do you think Kenyan runners can’t learn those same skills? What do you think is unique about Walmart that the average Kenyan doesn’t have?
And if Japan ever decides ultra are cool and companies start paying hundreds of people to train for them, the level of competition will also go next level…
Kenyans and Ethiopians have a huge genetic advantage when it comes to Marathon running. Some Kenyans could pick up the same skills as the "white guys" but these Kenyans would not be the ones who have run a sub 2:05 Marathon.
Japanese runners are actually top ultrarunners on roads. A Japanese lady (former top marathon runner) holds the world record over 100k.
Of course. Not. The 2:05 makes too much to waste their time. It would be the legions of. 2:12 guys.
yes and what do you think would happen when their were 100x as many japanese competing because it was a viable career path? They would totally dominate.
Of course. Not. The 2:05 makes too much to waste their time. It would be the legions of. 2:12 guys.
yes and what do you think would happen when their were 100x as many japanese competing because it was a viable career path? They would totally dominate.
The 2:12 Marathoners are not going to do ultras. Once they are not getting faster anymore, they get injured and start retiring. One or two might try one ultra but they will never be a new force who will bring down the race times.
I'm pretty sure that there are a lot of letsruns users that could've easily ran 100 miles at 12 minute pace. It might be time to start training for ultras.
No, not really. Maybe you are being sarcastic and I missed it.
A race like Run Rabbit Run is not a jog around the neighborhood where 12-minute pace is no problem. It's in the mountains with climbing and descending on trails that slow anyone way down. No matter how fit one is, it is tough to "run" 12-minute pace up the side of the mountain at elevation. Some of those miles take 20 minutes, so a 12-minute average includes some fast running mixed with some slogs up the hills. These winners are no joke.
Ultra runners don’t think they’re special. They’re just sick of guys who have never gone more than 26.2mi on a road acting like they know anything about going up (or even worse, going down) a steep, technical trail 10 hours in, with 7 hours to go. It’s not special, it’s different.
The constant speed comparison is sooo out of touch with what the event requires. I’d take a guy built like a freight train with an iron stomach and a mindset to just keep ticking, over a guy with the typical marathon build and a 27:30 10k pr on the track in a 100mi trail ultra every time.
Again, you are entirely failing to understand the argument I'm making.
If a high level marathoner decides to specialize in ultra and trail running, they have a very high chance of being a high level ultra runner. Some would certainly fail to translate their road talent to ultra talent as they just wouldn't be cut out for the trails or their stomach couldn't handle it. How many would fail? Half? More? Less? I don't know. But aerobic capacity is by far the greatest physical trait any distance runner can have. To believe otherwise is just foolish.
I showed up to a trail marathon 10lbs overweight, barely running at that time. Won the race outright, although I'll admit it was a very dinky local race. But I smashed a lot of people with trekking poles and vests and all that. I drank flat soda between loops. I won because I was way way more aerobically developed than them, not because I was some trail god.
I think you make a lot of assumptions.. Heck many would say Camille Herron is a great ultra runner as she hold many world records as well as winning comrades. How come she sucks @ss when it comes to trails and elevation? It's not like she doesn't train for it... Not everyone just automatically correlates to trails based on fitness/aerobic capacity. Trail running really is a different sport. Hell one could argue the different subsets within trail and ultra running are different. See Camille**
Remember when Nick Arciniaga (2:11 guy) was supposed to light the trail world on fire in 2017. Yeah me neither... Reid Coolsaet (2:10 guy) lighting the world on fire... not so much.
Remember when Nick Arciniaga (2:11 guy) was supposed to light the trail world on fire in 2017. Yeah me neither... Reid Coolsaet (2:10 guy) lighting the world on fire... not so much.
As more road and track athletes have moved into ultrarunning, records have fallen and new stars have emerged. But none of those recent crossovers have the raw marathon speed of Nick Arciniaga. Arciniaga, a professional marath...
I'm pretty sure that there are a lot of letsruns users that could've easily ran 100 miles at 12 minute pace. It might be time to start training for ultras.
1. the altitude (racing at over 3000m) - many 2:10 marathoners don't live or train at high altitude
2. the downhills - many marathoners find the downhills at Boston tough - ultras are totally different beast - look at muscle development of many top ultra runners - Killian's quads....
Deer rojo, this race has been offering this sort of prize money for at least a decade now and still no Kenyan winners. I don't know if it's mental or physiologic, but if you've been to a elite ultra mountain race you'd realize these sort of athletes are built different from fast marathoners and 10000 runners. You don't only have to be good at running fast and flat. But also good at trail running, power hiking, have the stomach for it and there's a x factor to it that you wouldn't know unless you saw it first hand. Sure there's a few sub 2:15 marathoners at the high end of the sport of ultra mountain running. But the vast majority are in that 2:20-2:30 range. And 9 times out of 10 those sub 2:10 guys crash and burn in these mountain ultras. A good recent example was the Canadian Olympic marathoner who finished way back in western states I think two years back. There was also a 2:10 guy that went at it in black canyon earlier this year and DNF. But whatever rojo, keep being ignorant. Rojo next year not too far away from Baltimore there's a UTMB event in Virginia (referring Grindstone). For the love of God go there next year and educate yourself.
I'm open to the idea that it's a different skill set (I'm not convinced Kipchoge wold win these as he can't even win Boston) but in the end I'm going to side with my ex-athlete Sage Canada who wrote the following a few posts before yours:
I've said this for years on here and I'll say it again: Success in ultras correlates very highly with best marathon times. Yes, of course sometimes the 2:15 guy has a horrible meltdown and gets beat by the 2:25 or 2:30 guy. But generally they are destroying the 2:40 guy.
Just jumping in to say I did Run Rabbit Run for the first time this year. It was my fifth 100 and by far the most beautiful/fun course and well managed. Aid station volunteers are top notch. If anyone is looking to do a hundred miler I highly recommend this one
I assume that you have tree trunk legs and know what salt tablets are?
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