I would probably say 14:20s makes a runner world class. I think you misread an earlier message. You do that frequently, especially when your Tuohy is involved
Well I guess I am better at math that you. You said Tuohy was 45 seconds from world class. She has run 15:03. Now you can pull out your calculator if need be. But 15:03 less 0:45 is 14:18. I will walk you through it if you need help.
Are you suggesting that Tuohy plans t dope after college? If not, she has no way to get close to world class accoriding to your logic.
I didn't say Tuohy plans to dope after college. But quite a few world-class athletes dope - that is a fact - and I wouldn't give a bar for any of those you named being clean.
The simple fact is the top echelon of the sport is based on chemistry no matter how much the apologists on here try to rationalize. Natural talent has no chance. Kipyegon for example shattered a record beating out a rogues gallery of the most notorious dopers in the sport, including the Chinese and Soviets. The idea that this was clean is utterly laughable. So comparing a normal college runner to the top pro runners is an intentionally dishonest, invidious comparison.
The idiots that substantially populate this site remain wilfully blind to what drives the sport in this era.
This post was edited 30 seconds after it was posted.
The simple fact is the top echelon of the sport is based on chemistry no matter how much the apologists on here try to rationalize. Natural talent has no chance. Kipyegon for example shattered a record beating out a rogues gallery of the most notorious dopers in the sport, including the Chinese and Soviets. The idea that this was clean is utterly laughable. So comparing a normal college runner to the top pro runners is an intentionally dishonest, invidious comparison.
The idiots that substantially populate this site remain wilfully blind to what drives the sport in this era.
The idiots that substantially populate this site remain wilfully blind to what drives the sport in this era.
And what makes Tuohy so good? "Talent"? Lol
Why do people like you even follow the sport anymore? Is it just to be a spiteful member of the peanut gallery because you failed in your own athletic dreams? All I ever see on this board from your crowd is "Every solid athlete is a doper...every kid is overrated...every coach is a scumbag...every professional program is cheating".
If you're this miserable, why not do what other miserable people do and tear the wings off house flies instead of hanging out here with your negativity?
You are spot on with your predictions. But her fans can never be incorrect. They will still be talking her college career and how she had no more to prove which is why she walked away from the sport.
This from the poster who limits "world class" to sub 14:20 (or only 3 runners)
It seems arbitrary and pointless to define "world class" in terms of a specific time or ranking in any given year. Tsegay and Hassan have not even a run a 5000 this year. Does that mean they are not world class?
I think someone is world class if they can legitimately compete for a WC or Olympic medal. Kipyegon was world class in the 5000 even before her WR because she would compete for a medal if she entered the event. Same with Hassan in the marathon before London.
This from the poster who limits "world class" to sub 14:20 (or only 3 runners)
It seems arbitrary and pointless to define "world class" in terms of a specific time or ranking in any given year. Tsegay and Hassan have not even a run a 5000 this year. Does that mean they are not world class?
I think someone is world class if they can legitimately compete for a WC or Olympic medal. Kipyegon was world class in the 5000 even before her WR because she would compete for a medal if she entered the event. Same with Hassan in the marathon before London.
There should be more specific definition of world or national class. Saying 'can compete for a medal' gets you all the way down to the Molly Seidel level - and I know the trolls don't want Molly to be world class.....why not top 10, or capable of top 10 from another event?/
Yep. This site is like cycling fans 20 years ago, and even they were not this deluded. They would insist the guy they supported was clean but that his competitors were dirty. But here they pretend the problem does not even exist. If people want to follow the top pro runners, fine. Just they do not have to publicize their complete ignorance what makes this and every other endurance sport go in doing so. This is a sport where a group of mostly teenaged, non-distinguished Chinese runners suddenly were able to demolish the entire world and run times that to this day only a handful have approach. Based solely on chemistry. And what was Shelby Houlihan's natural talent level? She Burritoed her way to 3:55. What could she run clean? Her best college time was 4:09. PEDs gave her 14 seconds in a 1500m, the "undertrained" nonsense aside.
Bottom line, there is no reason to compare a normal college runner to the doping menagerie that is pro running. As long as it stays in the pros, whatever. It won't go away. But if people make these comparisons then do it fairly. Ask what KT could run if she did the same things. Or if she had that magic running gene the apologists always talk about. LOL. I think every top US sprinter in the last 50 years has played the game. When she turns pro then we will see if Katelyn does too. I don't blame Sydney for doing it rather than becoming a casualty, and I would not blame her. The natural talent is very real but it is not enough.
The idiots that substantially populate this site remain wilfully blind to what drives the sport in this era.
And what makes Tuohy so good? "Talent"? Lol
Tuohy is a very good college athlete. To be "world class" like the athletes she is being (unfavourably) compared with here would mean she was juiced out of her brains - like they probably are.
Tuohy is a very good college athlete. To be "world class" like the athletes she is being (unfavourably) compared with here would mean she was juiced out of her brains - like they probably are.
Tuohy is indeed a very good "college" athlete. Unfortunately I could see 15:03 and 4:11 being her lifetime bests. Once she leave the structure of the NC State track and begins liking boys, I am not sure she will continue improving. I hope she does but not so sure that she does.
Unfortunately we see doping on the junior level in certain countries. Again the Ma's army runners were by and large teenagers. And how many junior distance champions were later caught? If there is systematic doping in Kenya for example, which is what the cascade of doping busts indicate, it is not going to be limited to the senior level. When KT starts running times indicative of doping or starts affiliating with shady characters in the sport, then you can speculate. But this is a magic pill sport. No point denying that reality.
Unfortunately we see doping on the junior level in certain countries. Again the Ma's army runners were by and large teenagers. And how many junior distance champions were later caught? If there is systematic doping in Kenya for example, which is what the cascade of doping busts indicate, it is not going to be limited to the senior level. When KT starts running times indicative of doping or starts affiliating with shady characters in the sport, then you can speculate. But this is a magic pill sport. No point denying that reality.
So since KT is still running slow times, we can trust she is not doping? Got it!
Tuohy is a very good college athlete. To be "world class" like the athletes she is being (unfavourably) compared with here would mean she was juiced out of her brains - like they probably are.
Tuohy is indeed a very good "college" athlete. Unfortunately I could see 15:03 and 4:11 being her lifetime bests. Once she leave the structure of the NC State track and begins liking boys, I am not sure she will continue improving. I hope she does but not so sure that she does.
To be "world-class" like the athletes you compare her to the college athlete will have to dope like they do.