You have no idea what my background or education is you arrogant fool.
If you're not lying about being a doctor you know full well that the amount of time dedicated to nutrition is laughable.
The benefit of being in ketosis is that that the caloric deficit does NOT create the hunger response created by a caloric deficit in traditional diets. Keto regulates blood sugar.
You're not "arguing" you're standing on your supposed degree and declaring your opinion is correct without evidence.
You openly admit that nutrition studies are garbage and then try to ignore any study that doesn't support your argument and declare the half that does is gospel. That's absurd.
i can tell based on what you are saying and inability to interpret literature that your background is not in anything science related. id bet money on it- its that obvious.
blood sugar is not the driver of appetite on diets that you think it. as fat is lost, leptin levels plummet and ghrelin increases. over time hunger can be an issue especially if fat loss is rapid or the diet too restrictive. ketogenic diets do induce hunger suppression in some people but this is highly subjective. high protein and fat diets in general do this so it would make sense that a keto diet would as well, but ketosis is not at all mandatory for appetite control. intermittent fasting also has appetite suppressing effects. all i have ever been arguing with you is that keto diets arent special or superior. i acknowledge the limitations in all diet studies and thats why i advocate for any diet that leads to caloric control and balanced intake of nutrients. you are in the keto cult or something and cant even see that what i am saying is very reasonable. if keto works for you, and carbs work for me (as they definitely do) to achieve the same goals, i think my point is pretty well made without even having to reference a complicated study you cant understand.
The only making sweeping generalizations here is you.
I never claimed keto is the perfect diet for everyone alive. I said it was a possible remedy to lowering cholesterol.
It is.
I never claimed keto was superior to any other diet. For some people it's absolutely the superior diet especially in the short term. For others it isn't.
Your assertion that there's one answer for everyone proves you have no idea what you're talking about.
A balanced whole food diet is the ideal. In reality, a person that's obese is not going to maintain
A more intelligent "doctor" would look at the country that's 60+% obese and wonder if maybe the same advice you've been giving for decades has resulted in a 95% failure rate on diets.
Low-carb and ketogenic diets are popular among clinicians and patients, but the appropriateness of reducing carbohydrates intake in obese patients and in patients with diabetes is still debated. Studies in the literature are...
"In conclusion, LCD and KD can be effective options in patients with obesity and/or type 2 diabetes, although they are not the only available dietary approach for such patients. In any diet, LCD and KD should be tailored to individual needs and patients should be followed for an extended period of time. The use of those diets in patients with type 1 diabetes is still controversial and their long-term safety is still unproven. Further large-scale, long-term, well-designed randomized trials are needed on this topic to assess the long-term safety, efficacy and compliance of reducing dietary CHO in patients with diabetes, and particularly with type 1 diabetes of all ages, and to find the best dietary composition as for glycemic control, weight loss, and CV risk in all patients with diabetes."\
Anyone who tells you there is one answer for everyone is a fool. You fall into this camp.
“Anyone who tells you there is one answer for everyone is a fool. You fall into this camp.”
bro…are you just illiterate?
to quote myself: “i advocate for any diet that leads to caloric control and balanced intake of nutrients. you are in the keto cult or something and cant even see that what i am saying is very reasonable. if keto works for you, and carbs work for me (as they definitely do) to achieve the same goals, i think my point is pretty well made without even having to reference a complicated study you cant understand”
to say this another way, I’m saying whatever diet works, for whichever person, is the ideal diet. there are nuances to this discussion and i’d have them if you weren’t such an obstinate tool. i’m done discussing with you.
“A more intelligent "doctor" would look at the country that's 60+% obese and wonder if maybe the same advice you've been giving for decades has resulted in a 95% failure rate on diets”
holy eff- do you actually think the population at large follows what we say?? go follow a doctor around one day and you’ll see you’re argument is idiotic.
“Anyone who tells you there is one answer for everyone is a fool. You fall into this camp.”
bro…are you just illiterate?
to quote myself: “i advocate for any diet that leads to caloric control and balanced intake of nutrients. you are in the keto cult or something and cant even see that what i am saying is very reasonable. if keto works for you, and carbs work for me (as they definitely do) to achieve the same goals, i think my point is pretty well made without even having to reference a complicated study you cant understand”
to say this another way, I’m saying whatever diet works, for whichever person, is the ideal diet. there are nuances to this discussion and i’d have them if you weren’t such an obstinate tool. i’m done discussing with you.
"keto diets arent sustainable and otherwise provide no health benefit compared to a calorically equal diet with carbs."
Your initial claim was that keto diets provide no health benefit as if every human on earth was identical.
You said something patently idiotic and you've been doubling down on your stupidity for multiple pages now screeching "but I'M a doctor!"
I agree that the best diet for anyone is the one that works.
I agree that ideally everyone should be eating a balanced whole food diet.
This post was edited 6 minutes after it was posted.
I had high cholesterol (about 240) and was told to have my blockage measured. It was below what they could measure (which I was told was 30%). A cardiologist told me that high insulin causes high cholesterol. And i high carbohydrate diet causes high insulin. So for a month I cut way back on carbohydrates. Of course being a distance runner this was difficult. I basically eliminated 90% of the cookies/desserts I ate, limiting the bread I ate and eating pasta 1-2 times per week instead of 4-5 times. My cholesterol dropped to about 180 within 5 weeks. Unfortunately I can not maintain that diet and it now is typically 200-210.
“Anyone who tells you there is one answer for everyone is a fool. You fall into this camp.”
bro…are you just illiterate?
to quote myself: “i advocate for any diet that leads to caloric control and balanced intake of nutrients. you are in the keto cult or something and cant even see that what i am saying is very reasonable. if keto works for you, and carbs work for me (as they definitely do) to achieve the same goals, i think my point is pretty well made without even having to reference a complicated study you cant understand”
to say this another way, I’m saying whatever diet works, for whichever person, is the ideal diet. there are nuances to this discussion and i’d have them if you weren’t such an obstinate tool. i’m done discussing with you.
"keto diets arent sustainable and otherwise provide no health benefit compared to a calorically equal diet with carbs."
Your initial claim was that keto diets provide no health benefit as if every human on earth was identical.
You said something patently idiotic and you've been doubling down on your stupidity for multiple pages now screeching "but I'M a doctor!"
I agree that the best diet for anyone is the one that works.
I agree that ideally everyone should be eating a balanced whole food diet.
“no health benefit COMPARED TO A CALORICALLY EQUAL DIET WITH CARBS”. this is not the same as saying a keto diet has no benefit. my point being that calories and weight loss matter more than just being in ketosis. there are comparison studies that show that keto diets and other diets confer no significant between them when other factors are controlled for.
i started “screeching” that im a doctor when some internet trolls entire argument was that i know nothing about keto diets despite an attempt at evidence based commentary on why they are in general not more beneficial when caloric intake and weight loss are accounted for. education matters.
Nutritional studies are difficult because diet cannot be 100% controlled. There is only one study that I am aware of that controlled 100% of the diet. It was the Minnesota Coronary Experiment which was a double blind randomized controlled trial. The funders of the study sought to prove that vegetable oil consumption reduced cholesterol and believed that would result in lower death from heart disease. When the results came in, the study was buried in the basement. It was discovered by the son in the basement after the death of his father 40 years later and then published.
Objective To examine the traditional diet-heart hypothesis through recovery and analysis of previously unpublished data from the Minnesota Coronary Experiment (MCE) and to put findings in the context of existing diet-heart ra...
Objective To examine the traditional diet-heart hypothesis through recovery and analysis of previously unpublished data from the Minnesota Coronary Experiment (MCE) and to put findings in the context of existing diet-heart randomized controlled trials through a systematic review and meta-analysis.
Design The MCE (1968-73) is a double blind randomized controlled trial designed to test whether replacement of saturated fat with vegetable oil rich in linoleic acid reduces coronary heart disease and death by lowering serum cholesterol. Recovered MCE unpublished documents and raw data were analyzed according to hypotheses prespecified by original investigators. Further, a systematic review and meta-analyses of randomized controlled trials that lowered serum cholesterol by providing vegetable oil rich in linoleic acid in place of saturated fat without confounding by concomitant interventions was conducted. Setting One nursing home and six state mental hospitals in Minnesota, United States. Participants Unpublished documents with completed analyses for the randomized cohort of 9423 women and men aged 20-97; longitudinal data on serum cholesterol for the 2355 participants exposed to the study diets for a year or more; 149 completed autopsy files.
Interventions Serum cholesterol lowering diet that replaced saturated fat with linoleic acid (from corn oil and corn oil polyunsaturated margarine). Control diet was high in saturated fat from animal fats, common margarines, and shortenings. Main outcome measures Death from all causes; association between changes in serum cholesterol and death; and coronary atherosclerosis and myocardial infarcts detected at autopsy.
Results The intervention group had significant reduction in serum cholesterol compared with controls (mean change from baseline −13.8% v −1.0%; P<0.001). Kaplan Meier graphs showed no mortality benefit for the intervention group in the full randomized cohort or for any prespecified subgroup. There was a 22% higher risk of death for each 30 mg/dL (0.78 mmol/L) reduction in serum cholesterol in covariate adjusted Cox regression models (hazard ratio 1.22, 95% confidence interval 1.14 to 1.32; P<0.001). There was no evidence of benefit in the intervention group for coronary atherosclerosis or myocardial infarcts. Systematic review identified five randomized controlled trials for inclusion (n=10 808). In meta-analyses, these cholesterol lowering interventions showed no evidence of benefit on mortality from coronary heart disease (1.13, 0.83 to 1.54) or all cause mortality (1.07, 0.90 to 1.27).xtagstartz/p>
This post was edited 3 minutes after it was posted.
(Comments on Ramsden et al. in the British Medical Journal) Our expert examines a recent paper (1) based on 1960’s data that challenges current guidelines on the benefits of replacing saturated fat…
"keto diets arent sustainable and otherwise provide no health benefit compared to a calorically equal diet with carbs."
Your initial claim was that keto diets provide no health benefit as if every human on earth was identical.
You said something patently idiotic and you've been doubling down on your stupidity for multiple pages now screeching "but I'M a doctor!"
I agree that the best diet for anyone is the one that works.
I agree that ideally everyone should be eating a balanced whole food diet.
“no health benefit COMPARED TO A CALORICALLY EQUAL DIET WITH CARBS”. this is not the same as saying a keto diet has no benefit. my point being that calories and weight loss matter more than just being in ketosis. there are comparison studies that show that keto diets and other diets confer no significant between them when other factors are controlled for.
i started “screeching” that im a doctor when some internet trolls entire argument was that i know nothing about keto diets despite an attempt at evidence based commentary on why they are in general not more beneficial when caloric intake and weight loss are accounted for. education matters.
You don't seem to know anything about the keto diet seeing as you keep saying it has no benefit over other diets. It does.
Education doesn't matter if you're not clever enough to understand what you're learning.
“no health benefit COMPARED TO A CALORICALLY EQUAL DIET WITH CARBS”. this is not the same as saying a keto diet has no benefit. my point being that calories and weight loss matter more than just being in ketosis. there are comparison studies that show that keto diets and other diets confer no significant between them when other factors are controlled for.
i started “screeching” that im a doctor when some internet trolls entire argument was that i know nothing about keto diets despite an attempt at evidence based commentary on why they are in general not more beneficial when caloric intake and weight loss are accounted for. education matters.
You don't seem to know anything about the keto diet seeing as you keep saying it has no benefit over other diets. It does.
Education doesn't matter if you're not clever enough to understand what you're learning.
no you dont know anything! jesus, are you just changing your username?? lol
If you have been on a diet, you have more than likely attempted one that is low in carbs. Find out the benefit that it may or may not have had on your health!
many citations here showing any benefits of keto are not exclusive to keto. my point is well supported by the literature and many experts in the field. you don’t seem to know anything about keto or how it compares to other diets. education matters- youre a clear cut case of dunning-kruger effect.
many citations here showing any benefits of keto are not exclusive to keto. my point is well supported by the literature and many experts in the field. you don’t seem to know anything about keto or how it compares to other diets. education matters- youre a clear cut case of dunning-kruger effect.
There's experts on both sides of the debate you arrogant fool.
From your own article:
"Many low-carb diets and even studies suggest it improves satiety. There is some supportive data to show improvements in ghrelin, the hunger hormone vs higher-carb diets."
This is just low-carb it isn't even ketogenic diets where the effect is even greater.
Declaring the science to be settled is stupidity.
You are obviously not educated in nutrition. Declaring your opinions to be beyond reproach isn't the result of education it's just arrogance and stupidity.
Just stop. The article matches with what ‘an actual doctor’ already stated that high protein diets also have increased satiety. So clearly appetite reduction is not exclusive to keto diets. The docs point all along has been that any diet that allows a restriction in calories and leads to weight loss is pretty much equally beneficial. This seems obvious. If keto was so uniquely special, wouldn’t everyone be doing it? Atkins wrote his keto book like 20 years ago so it’s not like it’s a secret. Nothing you have stated even contributes to the discussions, you just keep repeating that the other guy doesn’t know what they’re talking about when it’s pretty clear you’re out of your depth or trolling. Either way, both of you are annoying as hell and should get off this keto thing.
Just stop. The article matches with what ‘an actual doctor’ already stated that high protein diets also have increased satiety. So clearly appetite reduction is not exclusive to keto diets. The docs point all along has been that any diet that allows a restriction in calories and leads to weight loss is pretty much equally beneficial. This seems obvious. If keto was so uniquely special, wouldn’t everyone be doing it? Atkins wrote his keto book like 20 years ago so it’s not like it’s a secret. Nothing you have stated even contributes to the discussions, you just keep repeating that the other guy doesn’t know what they’re talking about when it’s pretty clear you’re out of your depth or trolling. Either way, both of you are annoying as hell and should get off this keto thing.
The "doc" said keto has no benefit that you can't get from any other diet. This is demonstrably false.
Satiety isn't the whole equation.
On a high protein diet your body still uses glucose as it's main energy source. Body fat is FAT not glucose. Have you ever wondered why a 900 pound man gets hungry at all? He's literally covered in tens of thousands of calories. If you aren't in ketosis the body does not consider fat to be an energy source so it would ignore the fat stores and your hormones will scream for glucose which will make you want to eat.
In ketosis the 900 pound man will not get hungry. When his body wants energy it will create it's own energy out of his own fat in the form of ketones. His "hunger" will manifest in the form of habit not in the form of hormonal hunger. Over time the habitual cravings disappear.
On a traditional diet the hunger and feeling of deprivation never goes away because your body is resistant to consuming its own fat stores.
Just stop. The article matches with what ‘an actual doctor’ already stated that high protein diets also have increased satiety. So clearly appetite reduction is not exclusive to keto diets. The docs point all along has been that any diet that allows a restriction in calories and leads to weight loss is pretty much equally beneficial. This seems obvious. If keto was so uniquely special, wouldn’t everyone be doing it? Atkins wrote his keto book like 20 years ago so it’s not like it’s a secret. Nothing you have stated even contributes to the discussions, you just keep repeating that the other guy doesn’t know what they’re talking about when it’s pretty clear you’re out of your depth or trolling. Either way, both of you are annoying as hell and should get off this keto thing.
The "doc" said keto has no benefit that you can't get from any other diet. This is demonstrably false.
Satiety isn't the whole equation.
On a high protein diet your body still uses glucose as it's main energy source. Body fat is FAT not glucose. Have you ever wondered why a 900 pound man gets hungry at all? He's literally covered in tens of thousands of calories. If you aren't in ketosis the body does not consider fat to be an energy source so it would ignore the fat stores and your hormones will scream for glucose which will make you want to eat.
In ketosis the 900 pound man will not get hungry. When his body wants energy it will create it's own energy out of his own fat in the form of ketones. His "hunger" will manifest in the form of habit not in the form of hormonal hunger. Over time the habitual cravings disappear.
On a traditional diet the hunger and feeling of deprivation never goes away because your body is resistant to consuming its own fat stores.
“if you arent in ketosis the body does not consider fat to be an energy source” looool- what. the. eff. i have never seen such an utterly stupid comment. especially by someone so arrogantly claiming they know about keto lol. go back to school bro, you are utterly embarrassing yourself.
let me try to help you: in ketosis without a calorie deficit, the fat you eat gets stored as fat and despite using fat as your primary energy source- you still can get fatter. when you take your keto diet and get into a calorie deficit, you use fat to convert to ketones for energy and because you are burning more energy than you eat, you lose weight. in a diet with carbs that involves a calorie deficit, you also lose FAT because the energy from carbs is not sufficient to meet your energy needs- youre in a calorie deficit! in a calorie deficit- they both lead to the same amount of fat loss! this is settled science.
hunger is regulated by multiple hormones. leptin and ghrelin are the two major players and as fat is lost - on any diet- leptin, the satiety hormone, drops and ghrelin, the hunger hormone, increases. perhaps some people experience better satiety on keto, perhaps not- it is subjective. i for instance have used high carb diets to get to 5-6% body fat without any hunger issues by eating high protein and dieting slowly.
go read some nutrition and physiology textbooks. your ignorance is off the charts- dunning-kruger all day here.
I don't have my numbers off the top of my head but my "secret" has been to raise my good cholesterol.
I'm 64 and in very good health. High Cholesterol runs in my family. But, according to my doctor, my running (being very active) and diet keep raising my good cholesterol.
He "jokes" that I've been getting younger when I do my yearly blood work and follow up analysis.
My diet is simple- breakfast of Greek yogurt with fruit or steel cut oatmeal with fruit and almond milk (no cow milk for years).
My fruit is frozen mixed- I just thaw it out and add to the meal. A cup or two of coffee in the morning.
I have kale/spinach almost every day for lunch or with dinner or even a snack. I buy a mix at my grocery store (I'm lucky enough to have Wegmans nearby).
I snack on nuts, things like that.
Dinner is often- chicken, cod, salmon baked with asparagus or just some mixed frozen veggies with frozen spinach mixed with some olive oil and seasonings.
I DO "cheat" I go out with friends, I love ice cream, occasionally cookies but I don't overdo it on the junk food.
During the 20th C, as heart disease became the nation's #1 killer, consumption of animal fats declined (blue and orange lines are butter, tallow, lard). What went WAY up was consumption of vegetable oils (gray line). Saturated fats so clearly not the problem. pic.twitter.com/GNddHhXXVi
My advice to the OP is to try the statins. The track record for statins is about as well documented as any medicine in history -- they improve outcomes for cardiac events, with no noticeable side effects for 99% of people that use them. They are also powerful anti-inflammatories. I train 6 days a week at age 55 and statins don't bother my performance at all.
